this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
255 points (99.6% liked)

196

16423 readers
1 users here now

Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.

Rule: You must post before you leave.

^other^ ^rules^

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Rachelhazideas@lemm.ee 94 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This isn't just a liberal issue, it's a political climate issue that everyone plays a part in. Liberal 'smugness' is a reaction to conservative anti-intellectualism. When their feelings are as good as your facts, there is nothing left to debate.

No matter how simple liberals try to explain things, it doesnt matter. Conservativism has stopped having substance worth debating over when it is no longer about policy, but all about taking the opposite side of every liberal stance.

Liberals are not at fault for the willful ignorance of rural voters. No one starts off being smug and condescending to people. This happens after they've tried to explain with civility a thousand times and nothing worked. When ego and pride, not empathy and understanding, are the only things of value to conservatives, liberals resort to contempt. There is nothing left but to resent these people for being pigheaded and small minded. Their world views are set in stone by fox news, and any attempt you make at showing them the truth is deemed as a personal attack.

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I’ve managed to radicalize multiple of my blue collar, truck loving, baby Jesus spouting, coworkers. It’s a process, but so was my on radicalization, just a different one due to our different material conditions.

Obviously, you can’t change everyone’s minds, but in my experience, there’s not much mind changing that has to be done in a lot of cases, just education on the root causes of the things they already know and notice.

When one party is telling you that this is the best time in our history, while your wages have gone down for 30 years straight, and the other party is the only one addressing their issues, but is doing so through inflammatory rhetoric and outright lies, it’s easy to see why someone would lean towards one over the other, and why they’d come to believe one sides lies over the other side. The trick is that most rural atomized people recognize most of the same problems in our society, the same way the rest of us do, they’ve just had people telling them lies about why those things are happening.

If you want a mass movement, you have to meet the people where they are. If you want to feel superior, then dunking on rednecks is the way to go. That doesn’t mean accepting bigotry, but recognizing that everyone is at a different stage in their political development, and that it takes a custom catered approach towards each individual in order to best effect said development.

A big problem i see liberals having when trying to change the minds of both leftists and conservatives, is an inability to even consider any aspect of another’s perspective, and a belief in one’s own perceptions as objective reality. In doing so, they will argue against their perception of others beliefs, rather than actually discussing and finding what those beliefs are, or where those beliefs come from.

It’s almost like no one remembers that redneck meant socialist union organizer before it was corrupted to truck loving suburban hillbilly wannabe. The working class is ripe for radicalization, but you have to treat them like full people first, not caricatures.

[–] HumbleHobo@beehaw.org 22 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I have talked to my conservative friends on Facebook about their problems and their perspectives and try to understand where we agreed on things; what I found was that we agreed on a ton of things. This is funny because they would often times believe I was conservative simply because I was listening to them.

The biggest hurdle seemed to be some kind of weird mental block whenever it was revealed that they were talking to someone who didn't religiously follow certain political stances or certain politicians. This bothered me because I wanted to discuss certain topics and politicians and the conversation would immediately end whenever doubt was introduced.

Meanwhile, it seems whenever I criticize a liberal ideal with liberal friends I would get a lively conversation and nobody hating anyone at the end. I want to know why it's like this!!

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cognitive dissonance.

“Coping with the nuances of contradictory ideas or experiences is mentally stressful. It requires energy and effort to sit with those seemingly opposite things that all seem true. Festinger argued that some people would inevitably resolve the dissonance by blindly believing whatever they wanted to believe.” Festinger, Leon (1962). "Cognitive Dissonance"

See my other comment. I think that wall of doubt is consciously or subconsciously knowing that if they agree with you, have a realization, and their thinking changes, they will stick out and face getting that same cold shoulder from their friends, family, and community forever. Peer pressure is very real, especially in rural places where there aren’t too many peers to choose from.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] GreenMario@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you figured out how to turn them (bluepill?) why not write down the blueprint somewhere and share it.

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Because it’s not a blueprint, it’s a process that is catered to each individual and their circumstances. There’s no shortcuts.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] awesomesauce309@midwest.social 21 points 1 year ago

I grew up around and still live with these people. Let me tell ya how they think: They don’t. They don’t even really know what a liberal is.

To them a liberal is something other than them. And the ingroup they’ve spent their whole lives trying to fit into says that’s bad, so they are against liberals and everything they do and say and want. But so is everyone they know, so they’ll oppose liberals even louder and more extreme, in a bid to get noticed by their peers at work, church, family, and party.

And of course they’re right, liberals are shit. But they don’t know why, because again they Do. Not. Know. What. A. Liberal. Is.

And if they ever figure it out and outgrow the childish mentality of opposing without understanding, they will be outcast from their friends, family, and community. And that is the fear that keeps them lockstep in line, voting for the apocalypse.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 71 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's the type of overblown rhetoric and ignorant takes that we've come to expect from uneducated, inbred, welfare-taking red states.

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m an anarcho-communist in one of the most secure blue states there is, but thanks for proving my point I made in another comment that liberals argue against their perceptions of peoples beliefs rather than their actual beliefs.

[–] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Haha, I guess I really should have added the slash s. Did not think it was needed, but here we go. Good job with the self-own I guess.

[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Man look at the rest of these comments, I’m sorry but it’s been nearly constant attacks on the working class since I posted this meme, I may have gotten a bit defensive. Cheers!

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] kitonthenet@kbin.social 52 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

ITT class is created primarily by cultural signifiers and not material conditions, pay no attention to the $100k trucks and the houses the rural elite own outright, it’s liberal renters in the city that are oppressing the yokels! I will be very condescending to make this point about Elite New York Liberal condescension

Nevermind that your cities are destroyed and paved over for the convenience of this exact group of rural people, nevermind that your neighborhoods are destroyed for their comfort, nevermind that you are derided as undeserving poor, that your services are defunded to appease these people, that they trash your homes as shitholes, that they advocate sending in the army when you protest these conditions, that they themselves march through your cities with guns to intimidate you, that they cheer the corporate takeover of your homes and advocate for lower taxes to reward the corporations that do so.

[–] TwiddleTwaddle@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is very clearly talking about the working class rural south who are not the same people driving $100k trucks, or if they are they're deeply in debt to keep up what they see as necessary appearances - which is again a result of capitalist advertising and only works to keep these people poorer in the long run even if they have a nice expensive new toy temporarily.

I know the meme is that rural southerners all drive massive new trucks, but the majority of the rural south is extremely economically depressed and is 100% not going to respond well to liberal policies that do in fact come from urban areas with completely different material conditions. Even if the majority of people in both rural and urban/suburban settings do share a status of oppression from the capitalist class, their relationship to this oppression and the actual solutions to it often don't look the same - something that the democratic party will never compensate for.

On the bright side many of these rural southerners see themselves as libertarians to a large degree. Even if their ideas of liberty have been poisoned by the modern right wing, I've found they will often respond well to (historically conscious) libertarian socialist ideas when presented individually and outside of their predisposed ideas of left-right politics.

Not to mention that in many southern states voter turnout is extremely low, and the reality is that even though our politicians are mostly garbage right wingers - the people here are simply being trapped by their economic situation and the policies enacted by the few only further entrench their inability to escape poverty.

At the end of the day the working class rural south is primarily suffering from a lack of class conscious education and economic policies brought on by their ignorance.

Of course there's also a history of racism here that has historically been exploited by the right wing to further entrench itself, but again the further down the economic totem pole you go the more you find that white and black folks in the rural south suffer from this in much the same way, and they often know it.

[–] kitonthenet@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is very clearly talking about the working class rural south

It is very clearly not, neither in the OP nor the comments has anyone made this distinction, nor have they made the distinction in the other direction, that the capitalist oppressors of the urban liberal are not the same as the urban liberal themselves. There is no one in the thread connecting the status of the urban liberal to the rural poor conservative: i.e. that both are oppressed as a result of their lack of class consciousness

they’re deeply in debt to keep up what they see as necessary appearances - which is again a result of capitalist advertising and only works to keep these people poorer in the long run even if they have a nice expensive new toy temporarily

Then ppl itt should be comparing the trucks to student loans, but they’re not, they’re defending the trucks and the people they’re defending demand usury of the urban liberal

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] FerroMeow@lemmy.blahaj.zone 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

ok an european here, country people suck ass. Homophobes and bootlickers, while also blaming minorities for their problem. They hear "left", they say "totalitarianism"

[–] ElleChaise@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Plenty of educated people and academic leftys live in the country, they just lay a bit low to avoid problems with the types of people you're describing. And I hate to break it to you, but talking like that will only make things worse for you. Nobody wants to move away from their city conveniences, especially when they think the country is like a scene from The Hills Have Eyes thanks to people who don't know what they're talking about spreading negativity like you just did.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Country people led our (US) labor movement in the 1890s-1930s in conjunction with immigrant industrial workers in the big cities and longshoremen and others on the coasts. While there has definitely been a turning away from the left for the working classes in many places, the mere existence of historical working class socialist movements show that it is not an inevitable outcome, and with the proper analysis and action, can be reversed.

[–] John_Coomsumer@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The country people of the 1890s are not the country people of today. Big city folk were a significantly smaller part of the population then, and the college educated population was miniscule. The ability to become educated is the largest relevant metric here. Now you can hit up khan academy and stanfords YouTube channel and get a world class education for free. Back then you had to be straight white wealthy connected. The excuses for ignorance are gone, for current country people.

But yes, these problems can and should be reversed, and done best communicating outside of the specific "lie-beral pedo demonrat vs racist Jesus warrior firearm creep" paradigm; placing things in terms of labor vs ownership class.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] outer_spec@lemmy.studio 33 points 1 year ago
[–] Wirrvogel@feddit.de 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

Rural people: Take us seriously!

Also rural people: Explain it to us like we are five!

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 year ago

There's nothing wrong with explaining a concept simply, it anything being able to explain it simply shows true understanding.

The problem I see is a lot of rural folk don't want you to explain it simply, they're too prejudiced and dead set in they're ways.

They may ask you to explain it simply but they do so to see you stumble so they can mock you.

[–] TheAlbacor@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Successful social movements requires messaging that can reach the lowest common denominator.

[–] GreenMario@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Examples:

LOCK HER UP

BUILD THAT WALL

STOP THE STEAL

You need to break everything down to Three Syllables so it can be rhythmically chanted easily.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)

Rural people: We don't want govt to mess with us!

Also rural people: please help us during natural disasters, give us tax breaks, and bring us basic necessities like hospitals!

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] colin@lemmy.uninsane.org 17 points 1 year ago
[–] Sheeple@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is too americrule for me to understand

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] liztliss@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

It sounds like you've been the victim of the misinformation campaign designed to make it seem like everyone who isn't you is your enemy and that all people who hold certain beliefs are a certain way, when the reality is far from this

[–] vinceman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People outta be looking up where the term redneck comes from.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 1 year ago

It's a shame that the people who currently wear that name with pride wouldn't be considered rednecks at the origin of the term.

[–] areyouevenreal@lemmy.antemeridiem.xyz 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why is lemmy turning into MLs vs liberals? From my perspective their both questionable groups. Furthermore I don't think it's actually helpful or constructive outside of political communities to discuss this kind of thing. Not everyone actually has a side in politics to begin with.

[–] Amaltheamannen@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Not everyone left of centre is a ML. Liberals are not left wing.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] cacheson@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You're perhaps not wrong about the choice of community, especially after the hexbear fiasco. OP isn't an ML though, they're an anarchist.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Anti_Weeb_Penguin@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago
[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

A good point or two in there, but totally drowned out by bitterness and projection. “Hey big city libruls! Don’t reduce people to stereotypes!” I mean facking LOL.

I also like the part about “hey city people! no one else likes you” when 80%, and rising, of Americans live in cities.

[–] complacent_jerboa@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

we should all just go commit fully automated luxury gay space communism

or, failing that, we should at least aim for mostly automated anarcho-communism

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›