this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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Risa

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Trekkies when a character is an awkward pervert who uses the holodeck to write weird fanfiction about his co-workers (i.imgur.com)
submitted 1 year ago by USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website to c/risa@startrek.website
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[–] Stamets@startrek.website 21 points 1 year ago

Wait... you've met people who think that?

I've met tons of people who relate to Reginald but none of them would never (or at least would never openly admit) that they'd do something this creepy.

Although I'd totally use the holodeck to get a hug from Frakes. He looks like he has warm dad hugs.

Closest thing I can say for me is a Mariner-style fantasy where I am able to be quite violent to someone I dislike.

[–] PapaEmeritusIII@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Unpopular opinion(?): Barclay’s fantasies weren’t the creepy thing about this episode. Nothing wrong with having weird fantasies, as long as you keep them to yourself, and Barclay never meant for anyone else to see his holodeck programs.

The unsettling thing about this episode, to me, is the fact that the holodeck apparently doesn’t have any usage restrictions on the likenesses of real people. They really ought to have an opt-in system for allowing others to simulate you on the holodeck.

TL;DR: He just like me fr!!!! /j

[–] Stamets@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm just trying to compare this to real-world equivalents and honestly your point keeps getting more and more true to me. If you were to police someone from having fantasies about someone then that is just thought crime. The Holodeck is just an extension of your imagination, or at least it can be, so provided it's private then there's no reason to have anything against it.

So real-world. You start writing a story with the help of ChatGPT. It has a bunch of numerous open-ended ways of going through it so there is a level of interaction. The story involves real world people but they are based loosely on their real world selves, mostly focusing on perceived personality traits. Not famous people either but people you work with and are close to. So far so good. Using CG you make visual representation of these people. A little 'odd' but not illegal. I don't see it as immoral or unethical either considering it's a private fantasy. Someone then walks in and sees it and has an emotional reaction. But yet again there's nothing wrong about that. Just because they discovered it doesn't mean that it was wrong to do so. It sucks that the person feels that way but it wasn't about them. It was about the person who was fantasizing.

So I also popped this episode on while typing this and was skipping throughout. I forgot about one bit which relates to your 'real unsettling thing'. Riker says that creating versions of crew on the holodeck was against protocol. LaForge points out that there isn't any protocol against it and given his past experience he would definitely know whether that was true or not. Riker then says that there should be protocol against it. We've also seen Mariner do it on the Cerritos. The Holo-Whateverthefuck on La Sirena. I'm sure there are other examples too that just aren't coming to mind at the moment. So Starfleet really doesn't give a shit whether you remake someone on holodeck or not. Private sector really doesn't give a shit either given Rios/Sevens ship.

I like your idea of an opt-in system. "Please select all genres and roles you are willing to have your holo participate in." Then it's just like a 150 point list of all kinds of random shit from "Tourist" to "Murder Victim" to "Red Shirt".

[–] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We’ve also seen Mariner do it on the Cerritos.

That was Boimler. Mariner just appropriated his program for her own purposes. She even initially objects to the fact that he based the characters off the logs of the crew.

[–] Stamets@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah yeah you're right. It's been a hot minute since I've seen the episode. However, if I remember correctly, the reason he was making the holodeck program was to simulate crew for interviews. At least he was trying to make them as realistic as possible for a genuinely noble reason. He just happened to do something mildly horrific to get it done.

I swear, my logs on any Starfleet ship would be something like "Nice day today. I had soup." "Today I drew an art." "If a woodchuck could chuck wood..."

[–] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

he was trying to make them as realistic as possible for a genuinely noble reason.

He wanted a leg up to advance his career....

[–] Stamets@startrek.website -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes. And?

[–] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And that's hardly noble.

[–] Stamets@startrek.website 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To you. I disagree.

[–] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Your argument is that it's noble to invade your friends' and co-workers' privacy so you can attempt to further your career goals?

[–] Stamets@startrek.website 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No. My argument is not. My argument is something else entirely. Something that you previously quoted three comments ago so I'd really appreciate it if you didn't make shit up and then shove those words down my throat.

My argument is, and has always been, that the intentions were noble. He went into wanting to further his career. As we've seen time and time again with Boimler, the dude is painfully head over heels in love with the ideals of Starfleet. For standing up for whats right but also for committing himself to what he can do. Is he the best officer? Absolutely not. Does he make constant bad decisions? Absolutely. But he routinely puts Starfleet and everyone else before himself.

During the 30-45 seconds that this is talked about on screen Boimler isn't doing this to scheme to get a better position. He's literally preparing for an interview. That's it. His tone is flat and basic. No one has an issue with what he's doing until the point about the private logs gets brought up.

Now. If you would refer back to my original comment where this all stemmed from you will see this:

Ah yeah you’re right. It’s been a hot minute since I’ve seen the episode. However, if I remember correctly, the reason he was making the holodeck program was to simulate crew for interviews. At least he was trying to make them as realistic as possible for a genuinely noble reason. He just happened to do something mildly horrific to get it done.

I completely stand by that. I'd probably add a sentence or two to the end to hammer down how horrific the private logs thing is. At least more than the joke that's on the end of the comment about what my logs would look like out of paranoia. I'm sorry if that came across as unclear but it wasn't to me. His reasons/intentions for doing it where noble. The actions were not. I never claimed that his actions were noble. You are complaining about something I never said. Please stop presuming to know what my argument is before you ask for it.

Have a good day but I'm checking out of this conversation. There's nothing good that can come from continuing this.

[–] Rart@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They sort of addressed this in Deep Space 9 when Quark tries to use Kira for a high paying customer. So there's a little story line on preventing using unwilling characters in this way.

Totally agree that there should have been a mention of giving consent earlier on. The Jordi/Dr Leah Brahms storyline does touch on how there was an abuse. Perhaps Starfleet later on added the restrictions that are seen in Deep Space 9.

[–] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I dont recall that being a regulation on DS9. I think Quark was just aware that Kira would literally beat him to death with the latnium he made from the deal if he did it.

[–] 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 1 year ago

I mean, I am an awkward pervert but I don't have a holodeck and I can generally imagine more interesting and attractive characters than my coworkers.

[–] SunriseParabellum@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't think he actually has sex with them in there, still weird tho.

[–] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago

I'm sure that even in 1990, they knew that making it explicit that Barclay was having sex with representations of the crew would have been a step to far, but in the cold open of "Hollow Pursuits", after he beats up Geordi and Riker, Barclay is interrupted just as he's about to kiss Troi, and it's pretty clear where the simulation is going to go from there.

[–] Stamets@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago

He wasn't having sex with the 'Goddess of Empathy' but he was definitely acting a bit sus.

Dude also had numerous other programs considering the 'delete all programs' line at the end of the episode. Although even more sus is the fact that he specifically said don't delete this one and then smiled. I'm not sure how to take that smile to be honest. That could be innocent or that could make LaForge look like a Boy Scout.