this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2023

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YSK: If you're on Lemmy.World or Sh.itjust.works you should not subscribe to any Beehaw communities (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by SteelBeard@lemmy.world to c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world

91 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Why YSK: Beehaw defederated from Lemmy.World and Sh.itjust.works effectively shadowbanning anyone from those instances. You will not be able to interact with their users or posts.

Edit: A lot of people are asking why Beehaw did this. I want to keep this post informational and not color it with my personal opinion. I am adding a link to the Beehaw announcement if you are interested in reading it, you can form your own views. https://beehaw.org/post/567170

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[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's important to note that the admins of beehaw are not happy about this solution, either. And they hope to refederate once they have better tools and enough mods / admins to deal with it.

They point wasn't to shadowban, that was a side effect. The point was to protect their member--who specifically wanted a certain type of safe friendly instance--from hostile weirdos sending dick pics and stuff like that. Nobody's happy with the situation, but it's the best they could do under the circumstances with the resources they have.

I also don't think it's wrong for instances to have their own strong rules and preferences. This is one of the GOOD things about the Fediverse. The software features and how people use lemmy will catch up eventually.

As for the confusion / chaos around multiple/redundant/competing communities and so on...that will get better over time as people figure things out. Honestly it's not that different than reddit with all of its splinter subs like "true-" whatever.

[–] masterspace@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

As for the confusion / chaos around multiple/redundant/competing communities and so on...that will get better over time as people figure things out. Honestly it's not that different than reddit with all of its splinter subs like "true-" whatever.

That's true for just the duplication problem, but the defederation / shadow banning issue is not one that reddit has and is pretty confusing and poor user experience for new users coming in.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The` point was to protect their member--who specifically wanted a certain type of safe friendly instance--from hostile weirdos sending dick pics and stuff like that``

They are making community policy around a single person?

I am not following.

With that being said, they can do as they please and other can do what they want. That's the beautity of the protocol.

However, people shoudnt be surpised when others take the ball and play else where.

Looking forward to seeing how this works out.

[–] wildeaboutoskar@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

That was just a typo. Beehaw has advertised itself as being a largely positive, safe online space. People who sign up for it would generally be considered to want that same ethos.

It's not ideal at the moment but until the moderation tools improve it's the best way forward if they want to stick to their ethos. I enjoy Beehaw and the admin do seem like they want to refererate when it's possible to.

I'm on both Beehaw and Lemmy.world so I between the two I can interact with everything I would want to see.

[–] LeZero@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's getting pretty tiring to see people feeling entitled to have access to any and all communities of the Fediverse, if the people paying for the running cost of the Beehaw instance wants to defederate (for whatever reason, "good" or "bad"), that's their prerogative.

If you really want access to their content, apply to join, otherwise sign up to any of the dozens of lemmy instances federated to the rest of the fediverse.

One of the great things about the Fediverse in general is choice, user and instance admin can choose how they want to interact, and are not beholden to a company or group which can take any arbitrary decisions they want.

TLDR : Instance admin are entitled to how they want to run it, you're not.

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[–] ItsaB3AR@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Disclaimer: pretty new to Lemmy a federation (older than this account though).

From what I gather, defederation is supposed to be a function of this whole system, but intended to cut off whole instances that refuse to moderate or are active cesspools. In saying that, I don’t understand Beehaw cutting off two of the other biggest instances. I know they have a weird mentality over there of no downvotes and saw some odd conversations condemning someone’s political views while admitting to not know the person at all (dafuq?).

It seems to me it would make more sense to block a single community rather than the whole instance.

Maybe they want a walled garden, but as new people come in and want as much content as possible to show that this is a better venue than Reddit, to me they give off the wrong message.

Am I mistaken somehow? Anyone able to enlighten me?

[–] dagwood@vlemmy.net 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I recommend reading Beehaw’s statement: https://beehaw.org/comment/263590

As it is just text on a screen, I think there are more and less generous ways to read the post. But I think a lack of scalable mod tools (to combat an internet-sized influx of “bad actors”) is a reasonable (and hopefully temporary) rationale for defederation.

[–] ItsaB3AR@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Having read this, I get what they’re going for, but also question the venue a bit.

With Lemmy being about federation, it sounds like they want to have a de federated mini Lemmy to themselves where they can decide who is allowed in or not. Not that that is a bad thing, if there’s a demand for it, but I think it’s different than what every other instance is about and maybe would be better as something like a Discord server (or FOSS alternative).

Again just my 2c, I just know I’m looking for a better quality alternative to Reddit, and an isolated instance isn’t my cup of tea.

[–] millie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

Choice is the point of federation.

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[–] krackalot@vlemmy.net 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If you don't want to color with your opinion, use a different word than shadowban. They didn't do this with malice as the connotations of that word would imply.

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[–] pattmayne@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago

Is there a page where we can see which instances are ban-crazy and which ones actually federate and communicate?

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

What are you talking about? The apps all allow multi login. So why is this an issue?

[+] Nothus@infosec.pub 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] millie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago

Being able to create spaces according to your needs without having your hand forced by anyone is kind of the point of the Fediverse. Beehaw can cultivate a community that fits what they want, just like Lemmy.world. That's what it's for.

There's nothing stopping you from registering on Beehaw if you want to post there and contribute to that community. But without being able to detach themselves from instances that have open registration, there's no way to even slow trolls down. Banning would be meaningless, because you can register as many accounts as you could want.

The point of the Fediverse is decentralization and choice where the default options have been a bland toxic mess.

Personally, I enjoy both the more cultivated environment of Beehaw and the bigger community feeling of Lemmy.world, so I registered with both Beehaw and Lemmy.blahaj.zone so that i can post and read whatever.

It's not about what's better, it's about choice.

[–] CaptainEffort@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well then you better block this one too, because Lemmy.world defederated from the tanky instances. In fact, most instances did.

[–] kremdostup@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Is there any reason for them defederating?

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