this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2024
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And do believe that I, this random guy on the internet has a soul

I personally don't believe that I anyone else has a soul. From my standup I don't se any reason to believe that our consciousness and our so called "soul" would be any more then something our brain is making up.

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[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

People got it wrong in believing that souls are eternal or something. Souls are actually ephemeral.

[–] Fisch@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

I don't think there's a soul. If you really think about what you "are", it's just your thoughts, memories and senses. Everything that you experience as "you" in this exact moment is the thoughts you're thinking, the memories you can recall and the information your senses are giving you. If someone were to make an exact clone of you, including all the memories in your brain, you would both think that you're the real "you" but you would also be two different people with different thoughts and perceptions. But what happened to the soul in this case? Has it been cloned too or has a completely new soul been created? In any case, there has to be a new soul because 2 people obviously can't have the same one. If you instead transplanted the brain into the clone, would your soul have been transferred? I would think so. But doesn't that just mean that what we think of as a soul, is just our brain?

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

I hope I do, I hope we all do

[–] subignition@fedia.io 3 points 1 year ago

Not in the sense that there's some separate component than body and mind.

[–] tamagotchicowboy@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Personally no, and neither does anything/one else, its a very limited religious-brainwormed concept mostly used to just go around and call things 'souless' which is all in fun when its a terrible movie or something, not fun when its people and the concept is used to harm them. Its all material and its near countless interactions in many, many forms all the way up and down, in forms we know well and those we have yet to study.

During NDEs your brain glitches out as you're basically dying (and if you're really dead technically you're not human anymore anyway, just sayin, the pop-mythical soul seems to imply permanent human-ness lording all existence in a linear fashion whether directly or by symbolic language) and having OBEs is nothing mystical, in fact reasonably easy to recreate when fully well and alive, so its hard to say those as some concrete evidence for a pop soul concept or against it. I think its the brain making stuff up for now since life is hard and filled with stuff it can't handle.

A lot of things people call 'soul' in pop reference can be taken away quite easily by mere illness, time or even falling out of social graces.

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[–] FanonFan@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think (on a subrational level) that there's some essence of personhood or consciousness that seems to transcend its material fabric, becoming more than the sum of its parts. "Transcend" is too strong a word, since by all appearances there's no static being that isn't still largely a result of and dependent on its makeup; as the foundation deteriorates so does the consciousness that results from it. That spectrum of functionality seems to undermine the possibility of a true soul that exists independent of its body.

But the word certainly signifies an actual thing, I think. Take a thought experiment: if we were to somehow make an exact replica of you, down to the molecular level, it would from all perspectives except your own be you. But the essence of what is you to yourself, your continuity of perspective, would (probably) not inhabit that new body, it would still inhabit your current one. The Star Trek / Prestige problem of conscious continuity suggests there's something there, at least conceptually.

The fact that there's still a lot about physics / the universe / consciousness that science doesn't understand leaves ample room for conjecture, for now.

[–] Hjalamanger@feddit.nu 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If we made a exact copy of me I believe it would be me, at least for a split second until it experiences something that I don't and then we'd become two different persons

[–] FanonFan@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well, it would be you, from every perspective except your own. The schism would be (non)experienced at conception, imo.

Like if this replica were created in another room, another planet, whatever, without your knowledge, you wouldn't be aware of it, despite this new entity being you, for all intents and purposes.

[–] Hjalamanger@feddit.nu 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know I've already replied to you once here, but I've thought more since I wrote that. However, I'm going to keep it shorter this time (:

You and the person you will be tomorrow are not identical (you will have gained some experiencs and forgeten some things). But I still think that those two individuals are the same person, because you spring from the same person (more specifically; you, the one you are right know). The same thing would be true for a clone, your just separated by space instead of time.

[–] FanonFan@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

The key to the thought experiment is perspective: we make everything identical materially to try to isolate a conceptual difference. We make the two clones identical in every way, and from nearly all perspectives they are identical (but distinct) entities. The sole difference in this scenario is the perspective of the clones, who have two distinct consciousnesses. Looking at your clone, you don't see yourself, you see someone who looks like you. Because when we distill it to its pure essence, the one thing that is uniquely you is your perspective, your present conscious experience. You are looking through your eyes, thinking your thoughts, as is this entity materially identical to you. But it's not seeing and thinking as you, thus it is something different.

There's something that ties your pure essence to its material composition, such that even a molecularly identical entity wouldn't have your consciousness (just an identical consciousness, removed from your own).

We can explore the bounds of this experiment by tweaking variables: you teleport a la star Trek, whereby your old body is disintegrated and a new identical one is immediately constructed. Or maybe you upload your consciousness when you die, so the list of variables that in theory comprise you are preserved. But in all cases, the essence that is you, your continuity of perspective, doesn't transfer over. When you die, everything goes black, and that's it. It's only from external perspectives that "you" continue. But the you that is you, you as you experience yourself, is gone.

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[–] sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

I'll put aside the question of a soul and say, the brain is explicitly something our consciousness makes up (based on data so consistent we justifiably call it "reality").

Materialism is how we see the world. Our consciousness gives a better clue to what the world really is. My consciousness is what it's like to actually be this part of the world.

[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

i took a wet crap in gods mouth

[–] Comradesexual@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago
[–] Nobody@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There’s a pattern of energy that you control at least in part with your thoughts and intentions that the neurons in your brain use to make patterns. You can take chemicals that change these patterns in radical ways, including psychedelics that can unweave those neural connections.

Matter and energy are always conserved though transformed. We know what happens to the physical body. What happens to the energy pattern that animated and controlled the body?

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Our body generally stores its biological energy in the form of matter. That's food in your tummy, blood sugar in your blood, fat on your hips etc.. It needs to be brought to a chemical reaction to be turned into physical energy, which generally happens ad-hoc. This biological energy decays like the rest of your body.

And then a tiny bit of physical energy is always present in your body:

  • Potential energy: You'll collapse and transfer it as movement energy into the ground, where friction will turn it to heat.
  • Movement energy: You might be swinging your arm as you die. It will likely bump into another object or your body and also be turned into heat by friction.
  • Electromagnetic fields: Your brain cells and nerves will be blasting lightnings at each other. Those will fizzle out within a few moments, and again turn into from the friction of the electrical resistance where they impact.
  • Heat: The heat from these other processes, as well as your general body heat, is transferred to its surroundings via conduction and infrared radiation.
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[–] Nemo@midwest.social 2 points 1 year ago

don't see any reason that our consciousness and our so called "soul" would be any more then something our brain is making up

I mean, yeah, and? Brain and body are hardware, soul and mind are software. Software that's hardware-limited, to be specific. I am, my soul is, the decision-making process. Maybe that process will be copied onto a different platform, after this one fails, by an omniscient and loving God... and maybe it won't. It's no less real, I'm no less real, if my operating window is only temporary.

[–] HurlingDurling@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yes, but not by the definition of a spirit within me. I believe a soul is more like self awareness combined with our own neural connections in our brain (everyone's different).

[–] Vampiric_Luma@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I believe soul is an abstract concept we like to define with our ego after misinterpreting a bunch of ancient people with a unique writing style that doesn't translate well into our age.

I found exploring alchemy better defined what the soul meant for me.

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[–] kromem@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, kind of. I mean, I believe that we're in a simulation, so the mind's apparent dependency on the body is illusory given the body is just a configuration of information too.

That said, I don't think there's anything magical to it other than the persistence of information and the continuity of a relative perspective.

But I see no reason why that information and perspective couldn't continue on after we die and there's a number of reasons I expect that it will do just that.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

There is no such animal.

[–] retrieval4558@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

There's zero evidence for a soul

[–] Bizarroland@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

My understanding is that there's our physical bodies and there is the lightning of spirit that is our divine selves and when the two are combined together we become a soul.

I don't envision the soul as something that is separate from the body. Just each of us are one.

Like if you were turned into a computer program and run on a universe computer, your soul would be whatever happens to actually be actively being computed by the CPU and existing in ram at the moment.

The hard data saved on the hard drive would be your body and the electricity coursing through the CPU would be your spirit but only what is actually happening when the two combine is a soul.

[–] WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago

It seems like life is a vehicle for allowing matter, and by extension the universe, to comprehend itself in some limited fashion on an individual scale. I believe that this comprehension is an unfolding process of increasing universal awareness generated by an ever increasing number of points of view through every living entity.

It seems to me that most actions are heavily governed by pre-determined mechanical processes that are geared towards survival and reproduction, but there are also actions that can be chosen that are not exclusively determined by biology or circumstance. I refer to that impulse as Will.

I think the function of Will is essentially a course correcting ability of the universe that is bound in an infinitely interlocking series of experiences, giving the emerging consciousness of the universe the ability to “steer” its destiny a little bit, on both the individual and eventually macro level. I think that various mindfulness, meditation, health, and aspirational techniques can gently raise your awareness of this process within yourself and in the exterior world, which makes it all seem a bit less random—essentially attaining an enlightened perspective on life.

In the sense that I am a part of this universal process that is bound together in infinite complexity, and that I have the opportunity on occasion to effect events in such a way that essentially “leave my mark” on spacetime, I would say that I believe I am connected to a universal soul along with all forms of life.

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