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submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by hayk@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml

I used linux intermittently in the last 15 or so years, migrating from early Ubuntu versions, to Manjaro, Pop!_OS, Debian, etc. And decided to give Arch a try just recently; with all the memes around its high entry point, I was really expecting to struggle for a long time to set it up just as I want.

Disclaimer: your mileage may vary. I’ve been using some sort of unix CLI since the time I learned to pee standing (last year?), and in case of Arch this prerequisite makes the whole process a lot simpler.

Learning curve

The installation process itself was quite simple. Perhaps the most complicated part was the disk partitioning and setting up the bootloader, as I’ve never done it myself. But then again — on any other OS you kind of have to do the same, except maybe through the GUI and not CLI.

One thing you quickly learn when using Arch — is you always should consult their wiki. Actually, “consult” is an understatement; let me put it this way, on the hierarchy of usefulness: there’s reddit, then stackexchange, then random “how-to” websites, then your logic, and then there is the Arch wiki. Exactly in that order, since your logic may betray you, but not the Wiki. Jokes aside though, they’ve somehow managed to document every minute detail, with specific troubleshooting for almost any combination of hardware out there. This is incredible, and as a person who also spends a lot of time writing documentations — hats off to the devs and the community.

Once you learn how the daemons work, how pacman and AUR packages work — the rest is actually quite similar to any other OS. Except that Arch, even with a bloated DE is frigging fast and eats very little battery. I actually use CLI package installation also in Windows (winget) or MacOS (brew), so learning to use another package manager was not too steep.

Drivers

The main caveats actually come when you want specific drivers for your specific hardware. For instance, the out-of-the-box drivers for my laptop speakers were horrible, with the sound seemingly coming from someone’s redacted (never checked, perhaps it was). But that could quickly be tweaked with the “pipewire/easyeffects” with custom profiles which you may find on the web.

GPU drivers were not really that much of an issue for me (if I actually read the wiki properly). Enabling GPU acceleration in some of the apps (like Blender) required the AMD HIP toolkit installed (they have Arch support) with some minor tweaks in the Blender configs. Similarly, the camera, mic and bluetooth drivers were available as AURs or even native pacman packages.

Caveats

Caveats that come with Arch are actually shared among almost all linux distros (or more specifically — DEs). Support of Wayland, while improving gradually over the years (with a great leap forward in Plasma 6), still sucks majestically. Luckily, for many of the most popular apps (slack, zoom), there are third-party AUR packages supporting Wayland natively (I spent a lot of time looking for exactly that on Debian with no success)! All of the apps I needed I actually found with the Wayland support in AURs, but, again, your mileage may vary.

Takeaways

I’d say if you just bought a fresh out-of-store laptop with no data on it to worry about — you should definitely give Arch a try, even if you’re a beginner. Once you fail a couple of times (like I did), you’ll not only learn a lot more about the behind-the-scenes working of your own computer, but will end up having one of the fastest and efficient OS-es out there, which you will now be able to configure to your exact liking.

Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to really daily-drive Linux (and this Arch experiment is no exception). Don’t get me wrong: I love linux and the idea of having independent open-source and infinitely customizable OS. But unfortunately I professionally rely on some of the apps, that have no viable alternatives for Linux (PowerPoint, Photoshop, Illustrator, Proton Drive).

PS. “but what about GIMP, or Krita, or Inkscape, or OpenOffice, or using rsync for cloud storage, or <YOUR_FAVORITE_TOOL>?” you may ask. Trust me, I tried it all. Every last presentation, raster/vector graphics software out there. Regardless of how much I hate Adobe, their software is top tier, and until GIMP becomes the Blender of graphic design, I can’t really rely use it for most of my purposes :(

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[-] lemmyreader@lemmy.ml 42 points 3 months ago

PS. “but what about GIMP, or Krita, or Inkscape, or OpenOffice, or using rsync for cloud storage, or <YOUR_FAVORITE_TOOL>?” you may ask. Trust me, I tried it all. Every last presentation, raster/vector graphics software out there. Regardless of how much I hate Adobe, their software is top tier, and until GIMP becomes the Blender of graphic design, I can’t really rely use it for most of my purposes :(

The Trust me, I tried it all. and mentioning OpenOffice in one paragraph doesn't feel quite right. OpenOffice is obsolete. Instead there is ONLYOFFICE and LibreOffice as open source choices for Linux users, available as Flatpak, Snap and probably AppImage.

[-] hayk@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago

like i mentioned above in the comment, i really meant to say OnlyOffice (but i also tried Libre, and a bunch of others)

[-] lemmyreader@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 months ago

Okay. Your Arch Linux review ends with naming your favorite options which include Proton, Microsoft and Adobe. As you don't seem to mind using closed source software, did you have a look at WPS Office (Some Linux distributions include this), SoftMaker Office (Available for Linux and Android), Zoho Office ?

As for The GIMP (People have complained about its project name, but developers refused any changes) : From what I read Krita and Inkscape seem more promising. Krita has David Revoy as open source advocate, vocal on Mastodon : https://www.davidrevoy.com

[-] hayk@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago

I used WPS, it was worse than Libre from the usability, plus quite bloated with all sorts of stuff (luckily, I don’t have to pay for the Office, and will never actually do that willingly). Haven’t used the other two, however, will have a look, thanks!

Both GIMP and Krita are very nice and decent, just not powerful enough for many things I need photoshop for. Inkscape is actually much closer to Illustrator (not as powerful, but still), so that might be the only one with the “getting used to it” issue.

Actually, one other thing I should have mentioned, is that I also transited from using Premiere Pro to Kdenlive (and sometimes even Blender for very light video editing). Kdenlive is an amazing success story for KDE, hope that happens to Krita as well.

PS. The name GIMP sounds amazing! Love it, they should never change it )

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[-] Pantherina@feddit.de 32 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

OpenOffice is dead since years, Libreoffice is what is used today :D

Btw Inkscape is said to be quite good. GIMP 3.0 will have color profiles and nondestructive filters.

I used Libreoffice Impress instead of Powerpoint recently.

  • you will need to learn the core concepts new, master slides etc.
  • once you have your own templates, presentations will be very nice
  • you dont get AI bullshit templates so more manual work but more authentic presentations
  • same for hunting down icons, stock images etc.
  • for collaborating OnlyOffice is used, integrated into Nextcloud. OnlyOffice has a Desktop Client, but I dont see the reason, Libreoffice is more feature complete.
[-] magikmw@lemm.ee 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Honestly I recommend to anyone who can do some html and css to try Animotion or some other reveal.js based framework. I can't look at PowerPoint and derivatives anymore.

Edit: actual link, but check the other tool too! https://animotion.pages.dev/

[-] Merlin13245@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

Https://animotion.dev for anyone curious. I just checked it out myself and holy... This is awesome!

[-] magikmw@lemm.ee 6 points 3 months ago

I ment this, poor naming clash. Your link is interesting too!

https://animotion.pages.dev/

[-] hayk@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

sorry, i really meant OnlyOffice. though i tried LibreOffice as well, you can see my breakdown in this post

[-] nightwatch_admin@feddit.nl 20 points 3 months ago

Nice write up! Though.. the sound coning seemingly from someone’s … someone’s what exactly?

[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 10 points 3 months ago

You don't want to know.

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[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I am really curious to see what happens with GIMP when they finally release 3.0 ( before May hopefully ).

3.0 will introduce CMYK, non-destructive editing, and other pro-level features. So it will be interesting to see if more people suddenly find that it is a viable Photoshop alternative.

Even more interesting potentially is that nee features can actually ship. It has literally been years now that new ideas get lost in dev versions that nobody uses. Going forward, improvements can be added to stable releases that people will actually use. It could be a game changer for the project.

[-] magikmw@lemm.ee 10 points 3 months ago

I hope GIMP 3.0 is the blender moment for GIMP. We'll see.

[-] hayk@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago

I very much hope so too!!! i made myself to drift away from the Fusion 360 (they just took it a step further by moving a lot of stuff to the cloud) towards the FreeCad, and am enjoying its capabilities ever since. hope the same happens to GIMP. and it's not about getting used to it after Photoshop, it just really lacks some of the basic functionality i absolutely need.

[-] neatchee@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago

As a casual Linux user this confirms exactly what I always thought about Arch: there are significant benefits that I would appreciate but I cannot afford the time and energy investment.

If I didn't have a job, I would absolutely make it happen. But in the limited time available to me I just have too many other things I'd rather be doing

[-] redcalcium@lemmy.institute 9 points 3 months ago

Then just use endeavour os. It's basically Arch but with a preset configuration already decided for you.

[-] penquin@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago

I use endeavouros. It's great after you set it up. It doesn't really give much help. It's still barebones almost like arch. I even had to install bluez on KDE to get my Bluetooth working. Best thing about it is the installer. In case things go south, you can easily reinstall. And now that arch the install script, it shouldn't be an issue.

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[-] Petter1@lemm.ee 3 points 3 months ago

Just install arch using archinstall (cli app to install arch automatically) and after that use yay instead of pacman

Don’t know how that needs more time than any other OS to be honest.

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[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 12 points 3 months ago

I just switched to Linux for the first time last year, and I've been using EndeavourOS, which I've been told is like Arch with training wheels, and my experience has been fantastic. In case anyone wants a slightly easier way to peek at Arch.

[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 13 points 3 months ago

Honestly EndeavourOS is Arch once it is installed. As I have said before, EOS is more of an alternative installer with sensible defaults. 99.9% of the packages installed will be from the Arch repos or the AUR. Even the kernel is vanilla Arch.

I can install Arch. If I am bringing up a new system, I almost always reach for EOS instead. EOS has switched to KDE as the default DE. I still prefer XFCE myself.

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[-] fxdave@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 months ago

Try donating projects you would like to use. If your adobe subscription amount is going to gimp and inkscape, you are buying yourself into the future of freedom. If you buy adobe, you will limit yourself more and more.

[-] hayk@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

How much do you think I earn to afford paying for Office or Adobe? :) i’ve never paid for any of those, even though I’ve been using Adobe since CS5.

As for donating: i agree, for now i sometimes help in contributing to the codebase in a bit smaller apps i actually can fix things in.

[-] flashgnash@lemm.ee 9 points 3 months ago

Image is inaccurate, the one installing arch has friends taking an interest

[-] hayk@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago

In the old days laptops were rare and accessible only to selected few. The others in the background were just admiring the flawless handwork the arch user is displaying with the command line.

[-] Ansis@iusearchlinux.fyi 8 points 3 months ago

Unrelated - I love that picture. I want it as a wallpaper but it's way too square. Do you have some source where I could get a higher definition, wider and/or taller version?

[-] hayk@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago

unfortunately, it's a product of imagination of an overpowered progenitor of our future overlords, otherwise known as GPT-4. and apparently, it still does not want to produce 16x10 images (that is, unless you give it a sacrifice in the form of monthly subscriptions). but feel free to use the image for whatever purposes )

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[-] gwildors_gill_slits@lemmy.ca 7 points 3 months ago

I had the same experience. Despite all the doomsaying online I found the installation and configuration process pretty straightforward thanks to the quality documentation.

[-] nous@programming.dev 7 points 3 months ago

Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to really daily-drive Linux (and this Arch experiment is no exception). Don’t get me wrong: I love linux and the idea of having independent open-source and infinitely customizable OS. But unfortunately I professionally rely on some of the apps, that have no viable alternatives for Linux (PowerPoint, Photoshop, Illustrator, Proton Drive).

There are viable alternatives for Linux as you mentioned. But non are going to just be drop-in replacements for those tools. There are a lot of graphics design tools out there now that are just as powerful as Photoshop for what most people need. But the big issue is they are different in just enough ways that it can be a challenge to switch to them once you are used to the way Photoshop and the other windows only tools work. This is just something you are going to have to get over if you want to try Linux longer term.

But it can be far too much to switch all at once and with a completely new OS as well. So don't. Instead start using these tools and alternative on your Windows install now. Start trying out different ones (there are a lot, both open and closed source), and giving each a decent attempt to use. Start out with smaller side projects so you don't interrupt your main workflows and slowly over time start learning and getting used to the different way these other tools work. If you make some effort to do that while on Windows then the next time you try out Linux they wont seem as bad. But if you keep sticking with Windows only software on Windows you are going to find the same issue every time you try to switch.

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[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 5 points 3 months ago

Where would one find custom Pipewire profiles for specific speakers and would those work for an unwashed Mint peasant like me? I have external speakers for my PC but the sound has room for improvement. I tried tweaking with Easyeffects but that is not really that easy if you have no idea about sound engineering.

[-] dditty@lemm.ee 3 points 3 months ago

Also wondering this. My razer laptop's speakers have noticeably worse sound quality on pop_OS than on Windows

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[-] BaalInvoker@lemmy.eco.br 5 points 3 months ago

I’ve been using some sort of unix CLI since the time I learned to pee standing (last year?)

Well, if you're a woman that's a huge thing, pee standing!

If you're a man, pee sitting (at home/friends home), please... It makes cleaning very, very simpler and the bathroom doesn't smell like public restroom

[-] k_rol@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 months ago

Out of context but good advice.

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[-] vort3@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 months ago

Same for me. Arch is great and I'm happy with it, but I need MS Office (I know about Libre Office, but there are files that are made in MS Office and I have to work with them) and at least CorelDraw (at least until SVG spec allows tab characters in text objects) to fully work in Linux. Until then, I have to use Windows :-(

[-] Quik@infosec.pub 8 points 3 months ago

Have you tried OnlyOffice? Their main selling point is compatibility with all of the Microsoft Office formats, so maybe that would suit your use case.

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[-] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

Out of curiosity, how did you piss before?

Aye, well, the Arch install process is almost like a rite-of-passage in learning more about Linux. Do Gentoo next, and good work!

[-] hayk@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Out of curiosity, how did you piss before?

lying on my back like all normal people

Do Gentoo next, and good work!

was planning Nix to understand the whole reproducible build idea, but Gentoo is a good suggestion too! will try that

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[-] baggins@beehaw.org 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Excellent work - I currently run Endeavour on a PC and laptop. This article has almost made me brave enough to try a bare bones build of Arch on the laptop :-)

[-] therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 months ago

I love this image

[-] magikmw@lemm.ee 3 points 3 months ago

My Linux usage was: Ubuntu, then Arch, then I got tired of it and took a break from Linux. I found Fedora KDE in 2017 and been using it ever since. Only reinstalled once to switch to btrfs and it went surprisingly smooth.

I like Arch, and I love the wiki, but I appreciate sane defaults and ease of use. I'd rather optimize down than pull features out of repos.

Another distro I'd check would be Suse, or one of the immutables, starting with the Fedora KDE one. When I have time for it.

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this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2024
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