ToastedPlanet

Me not going quietly to the death camps is me being selfish and rich according to you, got it. Real ally. =P

There was no policy difference between Harris and Biden on the genocide

The policy difference was Harris wants to end the war.

you’re going to bat for.

I want people to live free or die trying. You want to be morally pure.

It does not matter how big a majority Democrats get. They find the no votes. It’s how they killed the public option when they had a supermajority.

They managed to get to exactly 60 votes with independents twice. That's how Joe Lieberman was able to kill the public option by threatening a filibuster. He fits the white moderate description to a T. It wouldn't fair to do it without the Republicans. The Democrats are neoliberals, institutionalists. It only took one vote to kill the public option. They of course weren't willing to enact systemic change to get results. I am aware. This is what I'm arguing.

Our refusal to fix it is part of how we got here. And things will continue to get worse if we don’t take steps to fix it.

They were successful at doing the party’s work. There are always just enough Manchins.

Neat conspiracy theory. Manchin owns a coal company. Sinema was bought. The Democratic Party had to work around the interests of elites, which is another reason why we need wealth redistribution.

No, the far-right exists because of late-stage capitalism and over 40 years of neoliberalism pushed by both mainstream parties since Reagan. The Democrats lost in large part because of their refusal to adopt a populist narrative. They didn't go left enough. But refusing to vote for them or espousing accelerationist rhetoric because of that is self-defeating, harms minorities, and opens to the door to devastating climate change scenarios. edit: typo

And oh shucky dern, his hands were always conveniently tied. Except when it came time to sell weapons for genocide.

You don't actually care about minorities. Even more people would dead by now under four years of Trump. That's immaterial to you.

Democrats consider minorities expendable in their unending quest for Republican votes.

So do you. Except you want moral victory over the Democrats.

No, I'm one of the trans people you use in your pursuit of moral victories over the Democrats.

Biden taking credit for the work of rail workers whose right to strike he opposed is rich.

But like he did help them though.

You want solidarity in one direction only. You want the left to worship the Democrats no matter who they throw under the bus.

No, I want people to actually care about minorities instead of virtue signaling. I'm not interested in being currency in your game of moral purity with the Democrats.

You already got your actual victory over the left. You just want critics to shut up about it.

You got your victory over the Democrats at the expense of minorities, but you want 2026 and 2028 too. Well, Republicans might not even give us those elections or an opposition party at all now, we'll find out.

What power? The left, in your estimation, has only the power to lovingly smooch the ass of the center as they move to the right and ONLY the right.

We have the power to stop fascists from taking power, killing people, and destroying the environment. We can even educate people and co-opt the Democratic Party. I recommend you read what I wrote.

THEY. SUPPORTED. GENOCIDE.

Biden supported genocide. Members of his own administration pushed back against him in open letters. You don't care about the Palestinians. Genocide is a word you can type in all caps that you think will win you arguments on the internet. It holds no material implications with you whatsoever or you would be railing against Trump's promise of indefinite genocide.

As someone closer to the chopping block than I would like, I am no longer phased by that bullshit. I've got the right screaming at me that they want me dead, and I've got people like you on the left screaming at me to be silent as they drag me the rest of the way there. The Palestinians are worse off now because of people like you and your virtue signaling and so is everyone else.

Your vote is appreciated. Your rhetoric is not. We don't live in a moral universe. This universe is physics based. You acting in a way that is consistent with your subjective moral values isn't going to help anyone. In fact, it's going to let Republicans and other fascists all over the world run right over the people you claim to care about. Learn to analyze strategies based on their utility. edit: typo

The Democrats are the tool we have at our disposal. I intended to use that tool for as much as it can be used for. Help me.

We do have this power. We elected Joe Biden in 2020. Your argument pretends we don't at the expense of minorities and our ability to prevent the worst outcomes of climate change.

No, it's a problem for the people empowering the right by refusing to vote for the leaning right of center, neoliberal Democrats. People are attempting to get a moral victory over the Democrats by refusing to vote for them. This strategy makes minorities the cost of doing business.

Look, I don’t know if you guys haven’t been paying attention

I've been talking to people about climate change on this site.

(which it really didn’t in the long run did it?)

If we give up before we succeed then that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Democrats are neoliberals. They aren't going to solve our problems. But them being in power will give us the time to educate people and co-opt their party.

I give my argument about what that involves in more detail in this same comment section here: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/11577918

I’m not.

You are. I even gave the receipts. They were different, but people on the left didn't want to hear it.

Democrats are great at promising shit they have no intention of doing and then gleefully announcing that their hands are tied.

That's what a refusal to remove the filibuster and a razor thin majority will do. Manchin and Sinema were devastatingly effective in their obstruction. That's what a systemic issue can do in a nutshell. With the Senate, a tiny minority can overturn the will of the majority. Our refusal to fix it is part of how we got here. And things will continue to get worse if we don't take steps to fix it.

If your arguments actually referenced mine in any meaningful way you would know I have addressed these points in this comment section multiple times. As it stands, a casual refutation of your arguments is now sufficient. edit: typo

Democrats have no concept of solidarity. None.

Democrats have only recently been openly favorable to gay people within the last decade. Minorities have been using the Democrats to shift things to the left in this country for decades before that.

They just haven’t thrown you under the bus yet, but they’ve let you know that they will. Their candidates have been using the Republican “boys in girls’ sports” hatred in their campaign ads.

I'm aware of the messaging. That's still not the same as a ban on gender affirming care, removal of employment protections, and the rounding up of homeless people.

Rail workers

Biden actually helped rail workers. He should have stuck with them from the start and done more, but it's better than nothing.

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/10/1155763336/freight-rail-workers-union-paid-sick-leave-bernie-sanders-csx

The people who I would have expected solidarity from is the left. But instead I am constantly confronted by people who want moral victory over the Democrats. In this arrangement, I am the ball. Instead of kicking me, how about we leverage power to help people.

Vote for Democrats in elections not because they will fix our problems, stand with us, or even do what we want, but because it is how we demonstrate power to the fascists. It's how we protect the people that Republicans want to harm and kill. It's how we buy time to get a populist movement to co-opt the Democratic Party.