abfarid

12 items is express..?

Why are humans the only ones eating? It's the dog's day!

In the very least, something more rounded and ergonomic than a row of buttons, something that lays out the buttons in such a way that they are more easily reachable without moving or contorting your hand. Fewer buttons for the pinky, more buttons for the thumb, which is now pretty much only used to hit spacebar. Maybe a big analog stick that sits under your palm, so you can tilt your entire hand to move (IDK how how useful that would be, but you wanted me to imagine something), leaving your fingers free to perform other actions.

I didn't set a goal to pitch something better, I just pointed the fact that we use unoptimized hardware and hopefully somebody is working on something better.

Yeah, I'm not strictly comparing KBM vs. gamepad. As you mentioned, keyboards are just not ergonomic, and that's what I was basically saying. So you understood my point precisely, I, too, want to see more options.

I think it stuck around because the primary purpose of a computer is still information handling, and thus almost all of them require a keyboard. And since keyboard is always included and is "good enough" people just kept using what was available. History is littered with cases where something stuck merely because it was good enough and easily available. The QWERTY layout itself is a good example. There are layouts that are much better, yet 99% of the keyboards still use it. Because alt layout keyboards are scarce and using them requires relearning. All while QWERTY is good enough.

You're missing my point and just sticking to the usual false dichotomy of KBM vs. gamepads. I'm saying, we should come up with something better than a device designed for entering text, and I didn't even criticize mice. Keyboard isn't and can't be "optimal" gaming device because that's not its purpose, and it's not what it was optimized for. Games just adapted to accommodate the devices already included with every PC, with varying degrees of success. That is just a fact, not an opinion. Keyboards weren't made for playing games, we just adapted to using them, therefore they aren't optimal.

Which means that we are yet to develop the optimal device for gaming to use in conjunction with the mouse, one that was designed specifically for that purpose. Just because you "don’t know what else would be better when combined with the mouse" (quote from your other comment) it doesn't mean that nobody can design something better.

Yes, controller are purpose built for gaming, and they are definitely far superior in a lot of game genres. But mouse still is better for precision control, be it aiming a gun or selecting a unit. And keyboard is holding it back, because it's just an unoptimized row of buttons.

That's not stupid, that's malicious. Well, and stupid, but malicious first.

Yes! That's the kind of stuff I hope goes mainstream and supported more. Something purpose-built not for typing, but for gaming.

And I'm sure it would be quite comfortable to have a TKL (or some other compact KB) between that and a mouse and switch between inputs when necessary.

I aspire to git gud one day.

Notice, that I didn't say it's impossible to use KB for gaming, I just said (or implied) that it's not optimal. It's not good, it's just what we have and what we are used to, and there's a lot of room for improvement. And I say this as a PC gamer of 30+ years. So much so that when I lay my hand on a keyboard it automatically assumes the WASD position, even if I intend to type.

And I'm glad that I brought this perspective to your attention, because we often don't question what we are used to since childhood. Hopefully, these discussions will eventually bring us something better, that we have not yet thought of.

I specifically mentioned those special cases. It's obviously nearly impossible to play RTS and MMORPGs with a controller effectively. And of course another reason we use keyboards is that some games are just text input/typing-heavy, it would be mighty inconvenient switching to and from another input method very often.

But I also think that it's easy to argue the point that the device designed with the sole purpose of entering text is not optimal for navigating characters in 2D/3D space. Something better just hasn't come along yet or it hasn't been popularized enough. An improved mouse design could also offload a lot of inputs from the kb hand, like those MMORPG mice with macro buttons. There's definitely room for improvement.