jeremy_list

@Fidel_Cashflow they actually ran several experiments some more successful than others. Turns out people don't usually like having to share kitchens but love collective farming arrangements, even ones plagued with accusations of sabotage. I will have to hunt down the dates again but the re-privatisation of farming was not popular when it happened and there were several skirmishes between farmers and police over it.

@yogthos no, your superstitions are not "history", they're just superstitions.

@yogthos China is a place where some people are being lifted out of poverty BY CAPITALISM BECAUSE CAPITALISM IS THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM IN PLACE THERE. Also while it is a lot of people it's not as many as the official number because the poverty line itself is affected by factors other than people's living conditions.

@yogthos China is a place where people who own capital exploit the working class to create more wealth for themselves. The fact you're pretending otherwise makes you an anti-communist, an anti-materialist, or more likely both.

@yogthos @Aatube "creating these things requires having some form of central planning and authority" is literal superstition.

@carl_marks_1312 that's literally the point I'm making to your friend but it's not sinking in.

@yogthos T.I.L. Communism is when you run a few experiments about how society without private property might work but then force all the participants back into capitalism at literal gunpoint.

@Radical_EgoCom @NoiseColor @yogthos Rosa Luxemburg explained all this better than I could and she wasn't even an anarchist (but really take your pick of almost any non-ML communist theorist).
But in summary: implementing communism inherently deprives counterrevolution of the capital it needs to function, so any delay in implementing communism is at best a strategic error and at worst an indication that the org has already become counterrevolutionary.

@Sarcasmo220 choosing a "transitional state" is literally choosing to stay in the capitalist system, so yes thank you for making my point for me.

@Radical_EgoCom @NoiseColor @yogthos immediate transition is not only possible in theory but actually has some precedent (although so far it's only happened in the wrong place and time to last at scale for more than a few years). On the other hand expecting a transitional state to actually continue the transition is even less rational than expecting Jesus to show up and start helping.