trafguy

joined 2 years ago
[–] trafguy@midwest.social 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I know this is much easier to say than it is to internalize and believe, but it doesn't matter what any singular person thinks about you. There are people out there who do their best to understand and accept you as you are, without using what they learned to make half-assed guesses about the rest of who you are. They may be few and far between (or maybe not), but I know they exist. As soon as you start looking for those who accept you instead of trying to be accepted by those who don't, you'll be on a better course. And don't be afraid of anti-depressants. Depression makes yiu want to give up on fighting, makes you think nothing can help. It's a lie by which the illness sustains itself. By listening to that lie, you may protect yourself from harm, but you'll also "protect" yourself from finding happiness.

And remember, parents, old friends, etc. who don't necessarily get you too well aren't necessarily trying to be cruel, but you may never have quite the relationship with them you wish you could. They have their own problems from their own anxieties and abuse growing up, their own mental health issues, etc., and that can limit the depth of relationships they can achieve with you. Try to be patient, but don't drive yourself insane trying to achieve what isn't possible.

And if you feel like you don't belong, maybe you don't, and maybe that's okay. Maybe you're neurodivergent or simply have morals or interests that are incompatible with theirs. But the fact remains, there is someone who will accept you and with whom you can belong in peace, if you can open yourself up to let them. You haven't lost until the last time you give up on finding them. Giving up on something you still deeply care about, without eventually picking it back up again, is the only failure. It's okay to quit, but don't be afraid to come back to it if you care about it.

~ advice I try to accept myself, would give my younger self, and may hopefully be at least a little helpful for you

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

As others have said, intelligence manifests in many ways. It can also change over time for various reasons. Do you have a specific example in mind for a situation where you had a hard time coping with a person you considered less intelligent (or possibly witnessed a very frustrated person who you perceived as highly intelligent)? A specific example would make it clearer what particular struggles you're having.

One thing that helps is just trying to recognize that each person is unique and has their own strengths and weaknesses. Just because someone may struggle to effectively communicate, either by struggling to absorb or share information accurately and efficiently, doesn't mean they aren't able to learn and communicate well in other ways.

Try to speak to them as a person. Meet them where they are to the best of your ability, but without holding any notions of superiority (it's rude and unproductive to be condescending). And if they're not communicating with logic, bear in mind you can't convince them with logic, and you may find you're better off leaving them be and continuing with your day.

Or do you perhaps mean that others react poorly to the way you communicate? The above advice could still help a lot with that, but you may, like me, have some challenges with emotional intelligence or interpersonal skills. If others are targeting you for harassment, they may feel threatened by your behavior or otherwise have a tribalistic instinctive recognition that you stand out. So you could choose to learn that language or find ways to avoid those types of reactive people, which could include bringing in people with authority to mediate depending on your situation.

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 1 points 2 years ago

I'm currently working full time in web development. Cost of living is just crazy compared to what I've been able to find for suitable employment, and while it doesn't help that the types of work I tolerate well are perhaps limited by neurodivergence, I don't think it's the primary factor.

But that's beside the point. I was more just saying that there are definitely people who can present as though they're doing about as well as you could expect of a person with their background without considering neurodivergence, but still qualify for a diagnosis. Or put another way, it's possible, in some cases, to work hard enough to fly under the radar and not even recognize it yourself. I didn't have any issues with independence, really, until I hit an intense burnout from extreme levels of overwork and overall stress. I wouldn't be shocked to learn of others in my position, so I'm hesitant to suggest someone may not resonate fully with the experience just because they haven't hit their limit yet.

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

If you are able to function independently, then you probably won’t be clinically diagnosed even if you have some struggles here and there.

I disagree. I have official diagnoses for both ADHD and ASD and am mostly functional most of the time. If I earned enough, I'd be living on my own. I was diagnosed as an adult within the past few years while working nearly full time and I made it on time to each of the several appointments that went into getting that diagnosis. If what you say is true, I doubt the assessor would have been willing to give a diagnosis.

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

You know, I hadn't thought about it too much in this context, but I do more or less the same. When I'm around anyone at all, I'm conscious of all my behaviors. The only way I can really turn it off is weed/alcohol, and even then the instinct is just dulled a little, not switched off. I don't think the majority of people are nearly that aware of how each movement or sound they make might be perceived by others. It's largely unconscious for most. And I don't think it's an inherent wiring difference either.

I think growing up different and constantly having it impressed upon you that every single way you're different is wrong takes a toll. Other people are pushing you into a box and demanding you behave this way, not that way. Until you either learn to reject (at least some of) those rules or are pushed so far you burn out and can no longer conform, it's constant stress. And it's so constant that you probably aren't even fully aware of it, particularly if you're also alexithymic and generally have to work harder to identify your emotional state/response to a situation under the best of circumstances.

This leads me to another aspect. If we're viewed as too rigid, then allistics' intrinsic/core selves are perhaps comparatively more malleable. Their core underlying personality is perhaps more ready to adopt the behaviors and beliefs of the group. Quicker to be guided by faith. In which case, perhaps for an allistic person, this pushing and prodding doesn't create this emotional/mental tension in the same way it does when it pushes an autist to mask. Granted, this feels like it's painting an unreasonably broad brush, but maybe there's something to it.


Also, the most solitary jobs I know of are in the tech industry. Otherwise, for really isolated jobs, maybe fire watch or possibly lighthouse work if there are openings. If you have relevant skills, you might be able to work in web design, system administration, or as a programmer ("individual contributor") with minimal public interaction. I'm lucky enough that my managers have more or less recognized that I'm very reluctant to deal directly with customers, so I only have to interact with my small team for the most part. This likely would hurt my ability to progress to higher pay, but certainly avoids certain types of stress, and with the way the last half a decade has gone, I'm only just now reaching a point where I might have energy for that broader social interaction again.

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 11 points 2 years ago

I think you'd need to start by getting them to admit that the heat is a problem without mentioning climate change. Don't use any of the buzz words they've been taught how to respond to. Just try to get them to have a conversation where they have to come up with their own answers.

In fact, maybe don't even start off with anything related to the topics they've been told what to think about. Ask about something they care about more directly that isn't on their party's agenda. You'd need to keep at it long enough for them to start understanding you're not their enemy, which could be anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks/months, depending on how deeply entrenched they are. Then, start trying to work towards the lesser issues their authority doesn't bring up often but has expressed an opinion on. Basically, you need to de-indoctrinate them.

If you can get them to talk about an issue without recognizing immediately that they're in danger of contradicting their chosen authorities, then slowly transition towards getting them to talk about more and more "dangerous" topics, you might help them to bridge that disconnect and start thinking critically about the key issues.

That all said, You'll have an easier time working with people who haven't been deeply entrenched in an authoritarian ideology. The less developed their beliefs, the easier it'll be to guide them towards thinking about their beliefs critically. That's one reason it's so important to teach critical thinking in primary/secondary schools.

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 50 points 2 years ago (8 children)

logic will never convince them because they aren't arguing from a position of logic. It's about conforming to the beliefs required to be part of their tribe and/or protecting themselves from coming to terms with the harsh realities of climate change. It's reactionary against a challenge to their beliefs.

You would need to first convince them to consider that their respected authorities could be wrong. But within this reactionary mindset, being wrong is disgraceful. So unless they lose respect for their leaders or manage to shift away from believing fallibility is disgraceful, I don't know if they can be convinced.

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So I designed the company in a way that makes my personal limits less of a problem...

Interesting. It sounds to me like you used your strengths to streamline your process such that your limits don't come up as much. By working towards solutions that accommodated your limits, you built software that would make life easier for anyone (provided they can figure out the software). The same approach would probably work well for me.

they found a flaw in our contracts and took off with like 50k [+250k in damages]

Ah, that would make me hesitant to take on partners too. I've had some small setbacks from trusting people, but never quite that much (granted, I've never had that much to lose). Sucks you had that happen. Crazy that it was a previously reliable employee who turned on you like that too.

I don't know that I would be able to work with partners I couldn't trust. Even if I could keep them at arms length and remain suspicious, the added effort of having to handle that on top of everything else wouldn't be worth it, not to mention there would be too high of a chance they'd eventually stab me in the back. If it's a choice between working with someone I can't trust or trying to go at it alone, working alone is definitely a better choice. I agree with you there. I'll keep that in mind as I continue working on this problem. If I do look for a business partner, I'd be looking for someone who comes across as unflinchingly transparent, and whose transparency reveals strong integrity and a collaborative spirit.

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Apologies for deleting my comment, it seemed a bit out of place but I'm glad you responded. I managed to recover the deleted text, so I'll put that in a spoiler here.Mind if I ask if you have any advice for an aspiring entrepreneur? I had an electronics project that I tried to get off the ground. I managed to teach myself what I needed, but I'm stumped by lack of funding, time, and an aversion to the social aspects. I figure I need to find cofounders who can take on that work, but no one I know has the time, and few if any have the skills. Plus as a self-taught electronics designer, I can't ignore a concern that there could easily be a major mistake that'll affect reliability/lifespan of whatever I produce.

I have ideas in varying stages for electronics and software. Not many I've started on, but a few I've at least started basic planning for.

   

Thanks, listing out some specific experts to talk to and describing the overall process is helpful! I suppose I'll need to return to that project and work out the remaining bugs, revisit my business plan, talk with some consultants, and then look into funding. Given that my project requires custom-manufactured hardware, the upfront cost could be eye wateringly high, potentially > $100k if I needed to start generating revenue quickly.

Sounds like you might have gotten a gray hair or two already dealing with this stuff, prepare for more.

It was definitely a challenging few years, between that and everything else going on in my life. I don't mind hard work. I'd rather spend my time doing something meaningful to me than working on whatever a manager dictates I should do. I do need time to relax and recharge, but there's nothing saying I can't do both.

Partners were what nearly brought me down.

Could you expand on that a little? I've been looking for partners because I've come to understand that certain tasks burn me out quickly, which leads me to think one or more partners will need to take on those tasks in my case. Did you have a bad experience with a partnership? Couldn't find anyone who was competent and interested?


It's hard to find examples of autistic entrepreneurs, and neurodiverse-friendly resources for starting a business are hard to find online. If you were so inclined, I think sharing your experience in a book/website could help a lot of aspiring innovators. (How did you research? What business structures have you tried? What roadblocks did you hit/what solutions did you find that worked for you? How was your experience convincing people to trust/work with you?, etc.)

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Mind if I ask if you have any advice for an aspiring entrepreneur? I had an electronics project that I tried to get off the ground. I managed to teach myself what I needed, but I'm stumped by lack of funding, time, and an aversion to the social aspects. I figure I need to find cofounders who can take on that work, but no one I know has the time, and few if any have the skills. Plus as a self-taught electronics designer, I can't ignore a concern that there could easily be a major mistake that'll affect reliability/lifespan of whatever I produce.

I have ideas in varying stages for electronics and software. Not many I've started on, but a few I've at least started basic planning for.

[–] trafguy@midwest.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

(This turned into a bit of a wall of text, so I hid the longer paragraphs in spoiler tags with a "TL;DR" as the label)

Definitely sounds like a tough one to find, unfortunately. The one I found was willing to assess me as an adult white man for AuDHD, and I believe he had some adult women as patients, but I don't know if he would know how to approach an adult diagnosis for a high masking woman.

TL;DR: if you can find anyone who diagnoses adults, consider checking them out and bringing thorough cross-sectional notes with yours/others experiences and the DSM-V.All I can offer in suggestion is from my own experience, which will hopefully be close enough to yours to be of use. See if you can find anyone at all who has experience with adult diagnosis and seems credible, and if you do, consider bringing thorough notes. Comparisons between your experience and the DSM-V criteria. Comparisons between your experience and other AuDHD women. Comparisons other AuDHD women share between their experience and the diagnostic criteria. If you're prepared enough, even if it's outside of their explicit area of expertise, they'll hopefully be open to seeing your perspective and broaden their understanding of presentations of autism and ADHD. It sucks that you'd have to do that, but if anyone is equipped to accurately describe their own psychological profile.

 

TL;DR: I didn't bring many notes but did mention comparisons to others' experiences. Bringing more notes would have been authentic. Authenticity theoretically improves assessment results, and thorough notes gives more to go on.I didn't bring notes for all of this (I did for comparison between my experience and the DSM-V though), but IIRC I did talk about comparisons between my experience and those of autistic/ADHD individuals who shared their stories. I mentioned that I associate with other neurodivergent folks and other indirect clues towards neurodivergence. I think I was concerned that bringing too much in the way of preparation could affect their assessment, but in retrospect, it's one of those situations where you just sort of have to trust they'll take your fully authentic self seriously, even if that means bringing a stack of reference material thicker than a doctoral candidate's thesis.

 

On a related note, if you haven't seen this list of resources linked in the sidebar yet, there's some interesting stuff in there. I know that Yo Samdy Sam, the last YouTube channel linked there, is an adult-diagnosed AuDHD woman. Her experience might be relatable/a useful reference point.


For what it's worth, you seem genuine to me. And from my understanding, the vast majority of people who seek a diagnosis in good faith and put forth the effort to understand the condition well enough to tentatively self-diagnose are correct in their assessment. With or without diagnosis, if you have done the legwork and feel it's a strong possibility, you're welcome to consider yourself included.

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