weirdcarrotmonster

joined 1 year ago

Both of those statements are true, though.

"Next big thing" may actually work, nobody knows for sure. One thing MS actually has is a big userbase, and it would be unwise to ignore possibility of testing few hypothesises on them.

I used to work in startup during "big data" hype and some things we developed was truly outside of users imagination. Users knew their problems, "pains" as we called them, but they lacked tech skills to even imagine ways of solving them. Picture this: you are showing spreadsheet editor to people who are used to keep all ther records on paper. You are

  • Forcing them to spend money on software
  • Making them learn new stuff they didn't need in their work before
  • Exposing their data to the government
  • Are being an elitist asshole in general, assuming they need your help

AI may work for some people. Paint can get you pictures based on scribbles, notepad can turn your drafts into proper notes. You wouldn't know until you try it yourself, and most non tech savvy people won't even search for a ways to try. But if it's already installed - why not? Click on that fancy ✨AI✨ button and enjoy wonders of technology.

For some context - i'm not an MS shill, not even using Windows since Vista (used my literal lunch money to buy it). But i can't be mad at them for trying, especially when they don't charge extra for it.

Look no further than VMWare torching their userbase and salting the earth. Short term gains over long term longevity. Riot is not special here- they are being shortsighted.

Hmm, good point. I'd argue that VMWare's user base was more solvent (is that a right adjective? English is not my native language), but i don't think this argument would be in my favor.

You sub to services which are monetarily motivated to stay ahead of a business which gains little from fighting on this front more than ‘good enough.’

And subscription costs too raise the bar to start cheating. Not everyone would pay to have upper hand in F2P game. Those who are willing to do it can be hand-picked by reports and manual review. We don't know their "definition of done" in fighting cheaters - maybe decreasing number of cheaters by 80% is an acceptable result? Maybe those 20% of remaining cheaters can be accounted for as "really good players" - those exist too. That would solve the problem.

This wasn’t a dire situation. As long as league (or any online game) has existed there have been anti cheat mechanisms in place.

We both don't know that, if we are being honest. If it wasn't problem at all they probable wouldn't have done anything at all - or they'd do something far cheaper. This is a speculation - i can be wrong about state of things.

Also,

Short term gains over long term longevity.

I think there is a shitty pattern — if everyone is making same bad decision (good short term, bad long term), it makes this decision not as bad as it would be otherwise. If you are the only one who is forcing players to install possibly-malicious software, you look really bad. But if every (or majority) of competitive multiplayer games requires it, this idea just doesn't sound that bad. If you already have malware on your PC - what changes if you install another one?

[–] weirdcarrotmonster@sh.itjust.works 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

let’s say it is actually making a meaningful difference. (It isn’t and won’t: TPM is flawed and has already seen demonstrations of exploits.)

I dare to say their solution is "good enough" to stop ordinary user from cheating - not to solve cheating problem entirely - it may be impossible - but to raise bar of cheating without getting banned

They are actively culling users that otherwise were viable customers. Smart.

They may lose some users who won't play anymore because they won't install rootkit, but keep those who would leave because of cheaters. Maybe their situation is dire enough so they would apply such drastic measures?

Let’s expand on this outside the bubble: what os is growing rapidly in usage with gaming? Linux. Riot is actively making a shortsighted decision (historically this tracks) which will cause them grief in the long run.

I mean, i'm all in for that, but year of linux desktop ~~2011~~ ~~2012~~ ~~2013~~ ~~2014~~ ~~2015~~ ~~2016~~ ~~2017~~ ~~2018~~ ~~2019~~ ~~2020~~ ~~2021~~ ~~2022~~ ~~2023~~ ~~2024~~ 2025?

Linux is my favorite OS (i use arch btw) and i use it since... 2007, i think? But i sorta gave up on that belief - it's a niche OS, and if gaming is ever coming to linux - it's not coming to linux, it's coming to ChromeOS or SteamOS.

To sum things up - i'm not saying rootkit anticheat is a good thing. It's a solution to some problem, which people chose by comparing it to alternatives. Contrary to popular belief, CEOs don't just sit around and think how to make players more miserable - those decisions are not made in one day. I'd drop a game if it forces me to install rootkit - i value my privacy more and i'd advice anyone to do the same. I'm just really annoyed by all the whining and comments "boohooo my favorite game developers suck and don't value me enough".

[–] weirdcarrotmonster@sh.itjust.works 25 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Honestly, i don't get why people are bitching about it so much. A company, that makes a game with intention to make money off it, that never supported linux neither promised to support linux some time in the future, clarifies that it sees no purpose in supporting linux because of monetary reasons.

Okay, that may be your favorite game, you might have spend tons of money on in - but idea that it may never be supported on your favorite platform has never crossed your mind? It's like whining that PS exclusive game is not getting ported to Xbox.

So basically, “it’s too hard, and our engineers are not good at their jobs.”

Imagine this: you have a cheater problem. Your team of developers have only ever worked on gameplay-related stuff - graphics, game engine, etc. You can:

  1. Make them pull solution out of their butts, somehow gain expertise in topic they have never worked on
  2. Pour ALOT of money in HR and hire specialists that have experience in anticheat software
  3. Pay 3rd party for solution that you can use RIGHT NOW and that works (at least somehow)

When money is involved, you make decision by counting them. You give somebody (tech lead, probably) task to evaluate your options - and give you approximate numbers. And i'm not surprised they chose 3rd option.

Stop stealing our CPU cycles for high risk rootkits and start mitigating and detecting cheating on the server. It’s that easy.

I'm currently working on bot detection for web resources - and trust me, it's extremely hard to distinguish them from people without some client-side analysis. Sure, you can use behavioral analysis, but you need lots of data and, again, expertise in that. Okay, they have the data - thousands of games played daily. Have you ever seen job listing for "game patterns analyst for LoL"? Again, you have to find someone capable - highly payed experts, who will spend some time testing their theories, with no guaranteed success.

"How do you separate good players from cheaters? This low ranked player who just got his second pentakill - is he cheating or smurfing? This weird behaviour - is it because of missing fog of war or are they just communicating over voice chat?"

It's just... really NOT that easy.

The “distributions” argument always smells like bullshit. Developers actually interested on supporting Linux usually stick to one or two distros of their choice. (Typically Ubuntu.)

There's your answer - they are not interested. And there is nothing wrong with that! It's just business! Remember the "a times b times c" scene from fight club? They've calculated their x - and it's not worth pursuing (for them).


Rootkits are bad, m'kay. Wanna avoid them? Don't install them. Just don't be surprised when company adds them - it's their product, they do whatever the fuck they want.