this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2024
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And then there was Thomas Payne, who was as close to an overt atheist as you could get in the 18th century without having someone come up behind you and slit your throat.
There's also a long list of great quotes here from the founders-
https://liberalamerica.org/2014/10/27/88-founding-father-quotes-that-will-enrage-the-religious-right/
-- John Adams
And he was one of the more religious ones.
There were many spicy quotes during the Enlightenment -- the founding fathers were reflecting a common sentiment among the educated classes in Europe. Anyone interested in that time period would enjoy Peter Gay's book about it. It's incredibly well-written and much less dry than a book about that subject has any right to be.
One can be part of the system and recognize its faults.
Yeah, there were some people sort of bucking the system, and probably some closeted atheists, but criticizing the church for its corruption and failures is no different than us doing the same about our government today.
The next line after the quote is:
So not necessarily an anti-deity statement, but more an acknowledgement that the Church is a system by which European rulers reinforce their power and wealth. The whole letter to Taylor from Adams really rants about the church’s power and attempts to control people’s lives.
I don't disagree. Like I said, Adams was one of the more religious founders. He wasn't anywhere near as extremely anti-religion as people like Madison. But that's why I chose Adams.
If you want a good Madison quote:
And then, going back to Franklin, was him suggesting America should be building lighthouses, not churches.
Madison’s quote closely mirrors Adams’ for sure, noting the church just being another power structure used by the wealthy.
Franklin is one of the only founders I haven’t read much about, mostly because he seems too good to be true and there’s a lot of worship surrounding him. I feel like I could never get an honest look at him.
There's plenty of bad things about Franklin. For one thing, he cheated on his wife all the time, often with women who were also married. And really didn't care who knew about it either.
He was also rumored to have had many affairs. This shows that he not only invented the lightning rod, he probably also had one.
He was basically just channeling Seneca, who wrote this circa 65 CE (in his Letters from a Stoic, which are a great read)
and
and
and
--Ethan Allen, Reason: The Only Oracle of Man
Payne was a proto anarchist. His response to coming to America was “this no king thing is awesome but let’s look at the Haudenosaunee Confederacy and maybe since we’re on their land consider that they might be living better lives than us.
I don't really think that was a risk. My understanding is it was more like: "well this is what smart people have believed for centuries- what idea do you have for where we came from?"
Blasphemy was still illegal in many countries, and could even be a capital crime. And even in the ones that weren't, there were plenty of bloodthirsty religious fanatics.
It is certainly easier to argue for an atheist position in an age of science, but atheism itself goes at least as far back as Diagoras of Melos in Ancient Greece. He threw an idol of a god into a fire and said that if gods existed, they would stop the idol from burning. He got chased out of Melos for his trouble. That sort of thing is why, even thousands of years later, if you were an atheist, you didn't admit it.
You could go as far as deism in the Enlightenment, but the Enlightenment was already in full swing in Britain when Thomas Aikenhead was executed for blasphemy due to being an atheist.