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‘They will vote against Harris’: Arab Americans in Michigan desert Democrats over Gaza
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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One side is way more than just "more annoying." You're throwing away your vote, period. We cannot be single issue voters, because there isn't only a single issue at stake. The right will vote against their own self interests every time it the right says they hate the right people.These elections are how they get their players in place. This is how we got here. The players the right have placed in courthouses, congress, the senate, and the supreme court are there reasons we lost Roe v Wade in the first fucking place.
I'm not going to sit here and think that the dems are going to fix every single problem, but I know for a fact Trump would make it worse. People pulled this same shit last election, and the one before. Thinking that, "Oh, well, they'll see that I'm not gonna vote and then they'll change." Magats will vote against their own self interest because they're damn near a cult. We vote against our own self interests to, what, prove ourselves a point? Teach our politicians a lesson? Make it harder for the Bernies and AOCs to have even a ice cubes chance of hell of even discussing change? For some reason, we can't see the forest through the trees. It's so frustrating. People like you want to make it seem like a vote for Harris is a vote for genocide knowing damn well is the only sane option we have. Because you mean to tell me you really fucking think the Republicans are going to handle Gaza with care? Or that they'll be just a little worse to work with? You genuinely believe that?
So tell me, at the end of this "protest," what's the plan? We absolutely know that the third party is going to lose, so it's either Trump or Harris who have any reasonable odds of winning. So Harris loses, are you happy in this situation? The Republicans will actively block anything to help anyone, but I guess no one getting help is better than anyone getting help in your world. I'm not happy with my choices, but I'm a fucking adult, and adults have to make tough decisions. Adults have to weigh the options. Adults have to look ahead. I know right now I have no feasible candidate to vote for that can assist with Gaza right now, but I know one of those candidates is not going to go on live television and stir a race war by claiming Haitian immigrants are eating fucking cats and dogs. I know one of those candidates doesn't believe that there are active abortions going on at nine months. I know one of those candidates isn't going to continue to restrict the rights of citizens in their own country that they don't like. I know one candidate isn't going too be too busy sucking Putin's dick for money and compliments to govern.
Right now, let's say you and your family are poisoned (not because of what you believe, but go with me here). We give you two cups. One will not only do nothing for you, it will actually make your condition worse and much more painful. Another one may help you, it could even have the antidote, but all you know is that it will not make your condition worse and will at the very least slow the spread, giving you time to think of a plan should it fail. Whatever you pick, your family has to pick too. Your choice in this scenario is to stare at both cups, willing one to change into the antidote with inaction while you continue to succumb to poison. Your family pleades to at least not make their deaths worse, to at least take the possible antidote, or at least give them time, but you're like, "no, no, no, I think these cups are starting to get that I'm not easily swayed!"
I am sorry that we're in this situation, but we are. Voting for third party is throwing away your vote. If that's what you wanna do, I can only hope that the rest of us have more sense to make up for it.
Just curious, but is there a red line the US could cross for you to abandon it? A red line where the Dems and Reps are beyond salvaging, and you would work outside the electoral system to enact change?
In this current landscape, no. Come November, this is it. These are the choices we have. I have to look at everything and find the lesser of two evils. It sucks, but it's where we are. No, I am not at all pleased with what Harris has had to say about Gaza, but it's not as if I have another, reasonable option to vote for in the next three weeks. So who do I think it going to be "better" for the next four years while we try again. Neither of them is likely to passify me when it comes to Gaza, but one of them believes in trans rights. Unfortunately, that is better than nothing.
One month before the election is not time to stand on business, the players are set. Now next year, and the next following years until we end up at the next election, absolutely. I have no problem making my voice heard and attempting change when it could actually do something. It's like, when they tell you to put your own mask on before helping someone else in a plane. Both Gaza and America need "air." We can even say that, while America is "light headed," Gaza has already lost consciousness. As much as I wish I could kill two bird with one stone and pick the better candidate and the one against genocide, I can't, there's no a "joint mask" that's fallen for me to pick. But if I put on my mask first, take a deep breath, I'll get time to try again, maybe even save someone. If I don't take that mask, no one is getting help and I'll just pass out too.
I have to do what I can in this moment, and right now that's trying to put the more sane of the two candidates in office.
You aren't going to try again, like all liberals you're going to sit on your hands for 4 years and contest Leftists for trying to push for actual change. That's the problem, liberals can only say they are unhappy with the status quo but work their hardest to perpetuate it.
All you're doing is putting on a mask with a hole in it.
Really, all you're saying is that you would vote for Hitler if 101% Hitler was his opponent and shame voters for voting for a leftist instead.
Maybe you aren't trying again, but don't try to tell me what I will and will not do.
And still no answers, hmm? You went to, "Nuh uh, you're shaming the left in favor of a Hitler." Still no response to what we should do except nothing or vote for something we know isn't going to make a difference. Ya'll throw out "Hitler" like it'll make someone pause, when a it does is highlight what a ignorant voter your are. If you truly think the choice we have between Trump and Harris is picking between two equally bad Hitler-like candidates, then I'm glad you're throwing your vote away, because you're a dumb ass with an oversimplified view of the world that you live in.
Do nothing then, but don't try to promote people to do the same stupid shit. Don't sit here and try to further divide the left so we can fight amongst ourselves while the fascists just keep on chugging, because that's exactly what they want. While you're sitting on your hands, the rest of us are going to work. The rest of us will try our best to get through this election so we can try again. We will vote, we will protest, and we will work. We won't sit on our hands and will the government with inactivity, or the voting equivalent of "hopes and prayers" mere weeks before an election, because we want to have a temper tantrum about the world we live in, because we don't have time for that. We are all disappointed in our candidates, but we have shit to do. We understand that allowing Trump in the office again is only going to make things harder and worse and will make any change damn near impossible. We'll be the adults for you and get shit done. You can come back to the grown up table next election, if we even get to there. But, please, let those in Gaza know that you've done literally nothing for them except try to make your own country worse. I'm sure they'll relieved. 🙄
Here, I'll even do the response for you:
"You're just saying you'd vote for the Nazis if they were only a teeny different! You can think genocide is okay, even though I'm not doing shit about it! I have to say you won't do anything too, or I may have to come to terms with my own cowardice. I'm going to throw my vote into the garbage because that'll show them Dems that I'm not playing around! Who cares if we turn into a Nazi led government. I didn't vote for them, I just did nothing to stop anything, and if I can't save everyone or fix the world in one election, everyone else can suffer because no one in my country or the world is more important than me acting like a child. I know if I say enough 'Hitler' and 'you liberals' you'll make me feel better because I'll have a position to defend! Because nothing is more left leaning than doing fuck all and allowing facisim to walk throw the door unencumbered, obviously."
You're welcome.
You don't think genocide is bad?
Both are committing genocide, you're brushing that aside.
Lmao, no I'm not.
This will be my last post because we're not getting anywhere: But I am not pro genocide. None of any of my comments in this thread have alluded as such. I am just as aware and horrified. But I'm being realistic. The US has the blood of many nations on their hands and it doesn't make me all warm and fuzzy, but in the next few weeks, I believe that the greatest use in my vote is at the very least putting someone in office who isn't going to tell Israel to get it over with and just kill everyone.
All the third party does in its current state is take dem votes, making easier for the right. Dems are not going to get any message, the right will just get the key to the city. Now, is that going to be the case next time around? I'll do what I can, no matter how small, to change that. But this year, this election, the best we can hope for is to minimize the damage because that is our only realistic option.
Both sides are commuting genocide, so are you okay with doing nothing? Do you truly believe Trump will be just as bad in office, and therefore it doesn't matter? That's a question I cannot answer for you. If you believe that voting 3rd party is going to make your stand or help someone, there's nothing else for me to say. It just is what it is and we'll have to let the pieces fall where they may.
As important as I think this election is, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
Then you have to vote third party. Israel is already doing that to the best of their abilities with US support.
All of that text and you didn't address a single thing that I said.
You don't need to explain your line of thinking to me. I've been beaten over the head with it. I used to have the same line of thinking. It does not hold up to reasoned criticism and it simply is not possible to defend at this moment without minimizing genocide. Try it. Try having this conversation with someone that is watching their loved ones be murdered indiscriminately by our tax dollars. Go tell them how your chosen social issue is more important than Palestinian lives, that it justifies supporting with your vote and tax dollars a country that is bombing and starving living human beings, who are mostly children, and see if you feel so righteous at the end of it.
The Democrats do not care about any of your issues. They care about winning, and they care about fundraising. When their fundraising is actively threatened by your issues, the only way to get them to move on anything is to threaten their ability to win elections. Look: Biden just fucking did it, a legitimate threat to cut off aid (still only a threat but it's a start), and I guarantee you it would not have happened if this election was smooth sailing for Kamala. No thanks to you and all of you screeching about the end of the world if Trump wins.
Both of your cups are poisoned, so call their bluff. Refuse to drink the poison and demand an option without poison. The cups did not just materialize there as immutable objects, they were put there by politicians that need us more than we need them and have the power to change what goes in the cup. Do not for a second let them deceive you into thinking otherwise.
If they see they cannot win without you, they will move mountains to come meet you. Lesser evil voting does not allow for that exchange to happen. In fact it actively undermines it. That is how we got here, that is how we keep ratcheting to the right. Not any of your bullshit about unelected judges.
Gotcha. Thanks.