this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
101 points (95.5% liked)
Asklemmy
43944 readers
567 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Both Asklemmy and Lemmy.ml are quite active right now, and have been. I can only assume it's a broader question. I know I avoid Lemmy.world communities generally due to the censorship and biased mods though, maybe that's making an impact?
Can you elaborate? I have no mod or admin powers.
Right, you're assuming. So why come after me for doing the exact same thing you're doing. Seems like the definition of hypocrisy.
Also I've never been censored on world, but I've been censored on very normal and calm comments on ml dozens of times to the point where I gave up. Everyone has their own experiences but mine seem to line up with the majority which lends a bit more credibility.
Edit to your edit: you may have no mod powers but you are the echo chamber that is being reinforced. I've had interactions with you where you're being very aggressive or sarcastic and I'm sticking to facts. Guess who got banned or comments deleted, me. I mean maybe it's because you're an ml user, but those interactions look very bad from the outside and people are seeing that kind of stuff. Literally look at posts today about how people are moving away from ml.
I'm assuming because Lemmy.ml isn't noticably less active, OP can chime in if they want. It seems to be more instance-based inactivity, with Lemmy.ml the same as it has been.
Can you elaborate? Who is referencing me? I don't have any mod powers or admin powers, in fact I rejected offers for mod powers from different instances.
You edited the comment before so I put the response in that, seemed silly to copy paste it again lol. But tldr, I may have been extreme is saying it's you, by I've seen people interact with you, myself included, why get censored and banned. I've looked over everything I've said and couldn't find anything ban worthy outside me being a world user and going against what the community thinks.
I'm a Marxist-Leninist, and the mods and admins of Lemmy.ml lean Marxist, it makes sense that liberalism gets banned more frequently on Lemmy.ml. I have no control over what others say, only what I do, I don't see how that makes me a problem.
I am indeed a Marxist-Leninist, I stick to Marxism. If you were on Lemmy.world, you could be the echo chamber that is being reinforced. People are also moving away from Lemmy.world for being anti-Socialist.
Here are a few examples of the mods denouncing Socialism and Marxism, and they perma-banned me from political memes for going against the liberal narrative for "misinformation and posturing" despite leaving up the Zionist lie that the Palestinian genocide is a 1000 year conflict. This is also when one of the moderators claimed they weren't censoring anyone and were incredibly fair on a comment chain calling out their censorship, and refused to elaborate. They would not even tell me how I could edit my comments to comply with their rules.
They defederated from Hexbear "as a last resort-" before ever federating with Hexbear.
In the Lemmygrad defederation thread, there's unsupported claims of hate speech and calls to violence, which we have to fill in the blanks - the mods are anti-Marxist and anti-revolution, so any Marxist instance is going to fail that test.
The Hexbear defederation thread is somehow worse when they list why instead of leaving it to the imagination. Read some of the top comments, it's clear that it was anti-Socialist in motive. Real spooky scary zingers listed as evidence in the post like “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.” This statement is 100% obvious to anyone not stanning the US Empire.
Another example listed is “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.” Yet again, they are defederated for being Marxists, and therefore being revolutionary. This is just because they are authentically Marxist, not because posters were mean.
The mods of Lemmy.world are Liberals. Not just any liberals, but "true believers." Marxism is dangerous to them and so they shut it out, they spelled it out plainly. They censor just as much, if not more often, than Lemmy.ml.
It’s truly sad to see people build their own little cages (echo chambers) based on stupid economic systems instead of exchanging ideas peacefully. Which is not a dog whistle, like a certain billionaire with a weird fetish for fake free speech, but an actual request to stop censoring people based on non-hateful beliefs and talk with the other part instead of performing a psycho delenda est and feeling so cool and strong and getting off that dopamine hit. Fuck.
In short, no it makes no sense to ban people based on their non-hateful beliefs. It’s dystopian, it means people stopped listening to others and just pat their backs all the time. Fuck.
For what it's worth, it's rare that I see anyone I speak with on Lemmy.ml get banned for exchanging ideas peacefully. Defending Marxism, or even worse, applying Marxism to modern conditions, draws friction with non-Marxists.
So ml bans and censors people with opposing views, I mean there's the answer right there.
People could be moving away from world, sure. I honestly don't care as I've never seen the extremely heavy handed censor like I've seen in ml. I've not seen posts about people moving like I have with ml but I could be wrong. At the end of the day it doesn't impact me much. I'm just as happy to participate in those communities they move to as well, just not ml because of my numerous poor interactions.
You say world censors more than ml and I appreciate that you have had that experience but it's not what I'm seeing and it doesn't seem to be what others are seeing. Censoring happens, I'm not so naive to think it doesn't. But the things I've been banned for saying in ml, and comments I've had removed that are literally just saying facts with sources is crazy to me.
My point is that Lemmy is multipolar. It's divided between the right-leaning instances like Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, the left-leaning instances like Lemmy.ml, slrpnk.net, blahaj.zone, and dbzer0, and the leftist instances like Hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml. Mods and admins on each instance are guilty of maintaining the "instance line."
I don't know how you can read the very clear accounts of censorship I showed you that I personally experienced and claim that it doesn't happen on Lemmy.world, including just saying facts with sources. What is happening here is that you most likely agree with the political views of the Lemmy.world mods, and as such don't see as much issue with liberal censorship of leftism.
I never said it doesn't happen on world. If fact I said I'm not so naive as to think it doesn't happen. See, it's this kind of thing I'm talking about. I never once said world doesn't censor but you put those words in my mouth and try to use it as a talking point. This is a very common experience on ml for me as well.
And it's not me saying things that are for or against any ideology. If a community bans me for saying a fact (not a strong feeling, because the word fact has really been abused) and linking scholarly resources, I won't participate in that community. More so, if they ban me for having a normal conversation, yeah, I'll avoid them. I've argued with liberals many times on world, haven't been banned once. I've even gone a little far I can admit, no ban. I had one comment removed that was a fair call because I was heated, that's it. I've not experienced any of the nonsensical censorship on world. If I do in the future, I'll move away from them as well.
I did not say you said it didn't happen on .world. That's not my claim. My claim is that every instance censors views outside what the mods deem acceptable based on their own views. Lemmy.ml only really has a "bad reputation" among the instances with anti-Marxist views, like Lemmy.world and dbzer0, as a quick example, just like Lemmy.world has a bad reputation in leftist instances.
I think it's very difficult to understand the broader inter-instance relationships if you don't have a decent understanding of Marxist and Anarchist theory, as there are many of both, as well as many Liberals. It isn't like Reddit where Liberals far outnumber leftists.
I mean, come on.
Edit: this being down voted shows the very problem of group think. I showed facts and quotes to show an obvious contradiction. Gets down voted. They even admitted to misspeaking , yet here we are, it makes me laugh and it's how people are driven away. I see this in ML so much.
Bad wording on my part, I restated my intended point. What you see as crazy being censored on Lemmy.ml, I also have shown what I believe to be crazy censorship on Lemmy.world. All instances censor along their political lines, you can either go with something like Lemm.ee or find the instance that best fits your political beliefs.
Sure, that may be true. But I've been censored on ml around non political issues on ml and have attacked liberals and leftists on world without being censored. I'm one person, so my experience isn't enough to make a broader claim but others have shared similar experiences.
And I have explained that lemmy.world is anti-Marxist, and shown clear evidence of them taking action against Marxism. I have also managed to attack liberals on Lemmy.world and have gotten away with it, but even expressing the same opinion on different posts can get you crossed off the list of a mod having a power trip.
My point is that you can't remove bias from mods.
If you consider yourself an Anarchist, for instance, you'd likely be better served on Hexbear, dbzer0, slrpnk, etc than Lemmy.world, for example, just like I'm unwelcome on Lemmy.world for being a Marxist.
I'm talking about normal comments. Remove politics at all. Both communities have what we can call "conversations about benign things." I've seen more censorship in ml than world in that area.
Then if we do go to politics, I can attack both sides on "home turf" and only receive bans from one side. Sure my user is a .world user, no idea if that factors in. I've just seen a difference in how the two approach similar situations and in don't agree with how ml has handled those. That's really all it is for me. I could be wrong and like I said, if I see world censoring in a way I disagree with I'd treat them just the same.
I don't know if I'd consider myself anarchist. My views don't seem to fit into one of the labels going around very well. I find myself agreeing with parts of multiple stances. And disagreeing with parts of multiple stances, which is where my different experiences with censoring come in.
I'm not saying you're wrong or even that ml is a bad place. I'm just sharing my experience and reasoning for avoiding it. Other may agree or disagree, I'm not the source of truth by any means haha. But I'd really love to see the censorship toned down in general, across the board.
If this is your point, I'd like to see an example. I haven't seen non-political censorship on either instance fitting this.
Depends on why you attack liberalism. Using consistently Marxist analysis gets you banned, I imagine you aren't likely to be a Marxist, but I don't know. I'd need to see examples.
There it is. You aren't a Marxist, your views are not consistently Marxist. Lemmy.world censors Marxism and consistently Marxist analysis, not just everything critical of liberalism.
As a side note, I recommend reading theory, Marxists and Anarchists tend to have consistent views because their frames of analysis lead to consistent conclusions, such as Dialectical and Historical Materialism with Marxism.
That's fine, I just wish you hadn't jumped out the gate attacking Lemmy.ml and then me then.
Honestly, you can't avoid censorship unless you go with an extremely lightly moderated instance like Lemm.ee, so you may as well jump to one that best fits your views if .world isn't already that for you, or jump to a lightly modded instance.
I dunno, you're whole stance is claiming things that run counter to my experience and I don't feel wrong having attacked ML at all. You can say both sides do it, but even in that case it's wrong. I'm not looking to find a place that strictly lines up with my views so I can just live in an air tight echo chamber. I speak my mind in all communities and have only gotten banned in ML because I don't fit the mold. Maybe I've not come at people in world "the right way" like you have to get censored but I'm open to being shown some instances of it.
I'd love to show you examples of my normal comments removed, but they've all been removed lol. What would you like me to show you, I guess I could screen shot it from the mobile app on my side.
If you're Marxist and want to live in that ML bubble that's fine, but I'm not interested in a community that is so strict in what can and can't be said, especially if it's going to host non political communities. It seems like reinforcing group think. If it's all about Marxism then only host those communities, hosting others seeems like a slimy way to inject politics into other things.