this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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[–] commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net 3 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

In every one of those cases, the "minority" position group eventually named themselves something else. Left-opp called themselves leninists and then trotskyists (if they were that particular flavor or left opp). Left deviationists of late Mao eventually settled at MLM to distinguish between the majority opinion there of ML (ML MZT if you want to get fancy, but not necessary because it isn't distinguished from ML in any real scenario relevant to today).

Other nations had different approaches but agree that they are currently ML with differences in conditions and therefore differences in concrete tactics.

But regardless, you are changing a word unecessarily. Everyone who knows anything about it knows what one means with ML. What purpose is there to changing the label for something concrete and existing to which it refers? Call it a Camel for all I care, as long as we know we're referring to the foundation of historical materialism applied to material conditions, it doesn't matter. So changing it should have some benefit, which I'm not convinced exists.

[–] rostselmasch@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

Other nations had different approaches but agree that they are currently ML with differences in conditions and therefore differences in concrete tactics.

Those differences can be large enough, that it fall into contradiction with all those groups and parties claiming to be ML. Split between China and SU was the same thing.

But regardless, you are changing a word unecessarily. Everyone who knows anything about it knows what one means with ML.

I do know it too, or did I make a different a impression? And it is not unecessarily for me, since even Trotsky used ML in his writings and also Stalin, Lenin only talked about marxism itself (self evident). Of course ML was associated with the SU over time.

What purpose is there to changing the label for something concrete and existing to which it refers?

Stalin had his own additions to Lenin and Marx, which differs from others. ML is not giving attention to this, that's why I call it the way how it is referred to a person (At least I learned that I am not ML anymore because of it from the person before you lol). Same way you can talk about Leninism, which refers to Lenin.

Call it a Camel for all I care, as long as we know we're referring to the foundation of historical materialism applied to material conditions, it doesn't matter.

So what's up with your mood right now, how often should I say that this is how I use it? So where does the "we" come from? I mean, its not like that I agitated for it. As long as I am talking with people who use ML seriously, I am using it as well. If I had a discussion with trotskiest (ML not used there), I don't don't have discussion about labels, but I there would be no problem to explain why Stalin would be the continuation of Lenin.

So changing it should have some benefit, which I'm not convinced exists.

As I said, it makes sense for me and that's why I use it. And it has benefits to order the amount of historically important splits, merges and infights in my head. ML is therefore still not a valid term in my opinion. If you think I am just relabeling it, its fine.

Edit: Added a sentence I forgot at the end.

[–] felipeforte@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Stalin had his own additions to Lenin and Marx, which differs from others. ML is not giving attention to this, that’s why I call it the way how it is referred to a person (At least I learned that I am not ML anymore because of it from the person before you lol). Same way you can talk about Leninism, which refers to Lenin.

Borderline liberal take, bro. Stop focusing on Stalin, Marxism-Leninism was developed by many peoples from many nationalities.

[–] rostselmasch@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

Stop focusing on Stalin, Marxism-Leninism was developed by many peoples from many nationalities.

I am not focusing on Stalin at all. It has simply the same validity for me as to having a term for Luxemburg and I wouldn't call her ML at all (Her theory regarding imperialism was not so good in my opinion).

ML, was developed by many peoples from many nationalities. Some of them had important influence on several revolutions which happened. The thoughts, theory and praxis where sometimes unique in way, that Marxism-Leninism is not enough. So I may call it in a way specially referring too it. Where is the borderline liberal take because of this?

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