this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2024
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menby

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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

founded 4 years ago
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CW: chapter 2 contains a detailed description of child abuse by a parent

Hello comrades, it's time for our second discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 2 (Understanding Patriarchy) and 3 (Being a Boy). Thanks to everyone who participated last week, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

In Ch.2 hooks defines patriarchy, how it is enforced by parental figures and society at large, and the struggle of antipatriarchal parents to raise children outside of these rigid norms when the border culture is so immersed in them. Ch.3 delves deeper into the effects of patriarchy on young boys and girls and the systemic apparatuses that reinforce gender norms.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 4 (Stopping Male Violence) and 5 (Male Sexual Being), beginning on 12/11.

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[–] MiraculousMM@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Calling the patriarchy by its full name really shows how systematic it is and removes some of the lowest hanging critics right away.

Absolutely, and it forces you to think about the subtler, more insidious ways it manifests in daily life. Unfortunately in my experience if someone rejects the term or concept of "patriarchy", chances are good that they'll also reject the qualifiers that hooks adds to her definition. You call it white-supremacist and they say "but but but affirmative action!" (and usually they're opposed to AA because they say that the REAL racism) or, "but but we had a black president!" So the fully describing the problem kind of selects for people who genuinely who want to learn and understand the complexities of modern western society, similar to how hosting an optional book club self-selects for people interested in growing and educate themselves. It's such a struggle to get people to understand or even try to engage with intersectionalism.

If you can get someone to read these two paragraphs only or all of chapter 2 it would be a major eye opener for some people

I've been considering posting excerpts of the book in other comms where relevant to expose users who aren't in the book club to the ideas within. I know the people who really need to read this book the most are not going to and generally have no interest in learning or growing as people and that makes me so sad, but there are things I can do (and we all can do) to spread the good word around so to speak.

[–] dumples@midwest.social 5 points 1 month ago

Unfortunately in my experience if someone rejects the term or concept of “patriarchy”, chances are good that they’ll also reject the qualifiers that hooks adds to her definition I do agree that there are some people who don't want to be reached. They either hate new ideas or happy with being part of this system. However, I will still try to bring it up since I think people can understand intersectionalism. It also helps show you can both benefit and be hurt by a system which I think is missing in some discussions about gender roles, racism etc.

Other comms would be helpful. Especially some of the good quotes. I really enjoy mensliberation@lemmy.ca as well. Having a parallel book club or similar coordination would be helpful to spread some information. It is obviously a big ask but a short book helps.