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Cishet dudes of Hexbear: Do feel that certain gender or sexuality norms are harmful to you personally? If so, what are they and how would you say they affect you? (hexbear.net)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by Carcharodonna@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

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So, back when I was "still cis tho", there were a lot of aspects of male gender norms that bothered me deeply and of course I totally understand why now. Even though these days I obviously have a clear reason for feeling that way, I'm still curious if cishet men also have issues with how norms or expectations around gender and sexuality impact them in a negative way.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how those norms impact you, whether good or bad.

Also, I should mention that since this is a bit of a sensitive subject we're talking about here, please be thoughtful and sensitive when discussing with others in this thread. Thanks! <3

EDIT: Much thanks for all the great responses here! I know it's a difficult topic of course, so I appreciate you sharing your thoughts/feelings like this.

Speaking of which... I just looked at /c/menby and some of the posts on the front page there are over 2 years old. I see a lot of the discussion here centered around not being able to share feelings and/or not having the spaces or support to do that in. /c/menby seems like the perfect place for that, just sayin'.

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[–] jacab@hexbear.net 19 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

not sure if it's technically correct to call it a gender norm per se, but the way in which cishet men are conditioned to approach personal relationships with other cishet men in general can be very frustrating. i think it's sort of a compounding effect of various societal norms regarding what is considered "masculine and respectable" that causes a lot of friendships amongst men, and amongst cishet men especially, to be very shallow and impersonal. relationships like this are often more socially draining than anything else, and it just creates this depressing culture of emotionally illiterate men who only talk to other emotionally illiterate men.

on a personal level, it's straightforward enough now for me to recognize shallow friendships and to build deeper ones, but i fear that because i grew up within that culture prior to gaining awareness of the patriarchy or the privilege i have in society, i have internalized enough of it that i still haven't learned to open up enough and be as good of a friend as i want to be.

[–] Carcharodonna@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

i think it's sort of a compounding effect of various societal norms regarding what is considered "masculine and respectable" that causes a lot of friendships amongst men, and amongst cishet men especially, to be very shallow and impersonal.

Based on what I've read, this seems like it's very much a modern thing and that deep male friendship was the norm throughout most of human history.

Relevant poem:

They told me, Heraclitus, they told me you were dead,
They brought me bitter news to hear and bitter tears to shed.
I wept as I remembered how often you and I
Had tired the sun with talking and sent him down the sky.

And now that thou art lying, my dear old Carian guest,
A handful of grey ashes, long, long ago at rest,
Still are thy pleasant voices, thy nightingales, awake;
For Death, he taketh all away, but them he cannot take.

~ Callimachus, Elegy for Heracleitus

[–] jacab@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

very true; i wonder if it's related to the rise of public performativity caused by the internet/global real-time communication. if in the past men were primarily performing masculinity and upholding male gender norms for the people around them, while learning masculinity from celebrities and men around them, it seems possible that modern men have formed a new defensive, emotionally suppressive attitude towards performing masculinity on account of the sheer quantity of people they're now performing for and learning from.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago

That whole sense of "hugs must only last for a maximum of two seconds and must include slapping the other's back as a gesture of dominance/patronage, otherwise you're gay"... where did that come from? The culture celebrates being mentally (including emotionally) stunted, and has a thousand ways of mentally stunting people, more emphasis than almost anything else.