You can tell that this audience is primarily American because they still defend capitalism, even after being shafted by it over and over. Careful everyone, big bad socialism is going to take your kids and your wife!

Don't dare dream of something better, instead keep swallowing the propaganda of the state and its controlling elites.

[–] Zyansheep@vlemmy.net 2 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I like capitalism. It is cool sometimes.

(Comment gets downvoted to oblivion)

[–] lokoluis15@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Because it's unsustainable and actively degenerates everything in its environment in pursuit of an insatiable need for capital growth.

Saying capitalism isn't that bad is like saying early stage cancer isn't that bad. It doesn't change the nature of the cancer and what it will become unabated.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Careful this sub is full of people who are actual communists.

[–] Zyansheep@vlemmy.net 0 points 2 years ago

I like communism too, it can be cool sometimes as well.

[–] version_unsorted@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Anti-capitalism is centered around removing power from holding capital. By tying power to capital, there is an incentive to accumulate capital in disproportionate exchange.

Anti-capitalism is NOT anti-market. Markets are an economic tool used in all economies. Socialism is offered as an alternative to shift power to collective agreement through direct vote (direct democracy) or reprentative agreement (republic). By not granting economic goverance to a democratic government, there is a limitation on the ability to keep commodities responsibly sourced and consumed.

Capitalism means that we vote with our dollar and when those with capital have more votes and those without, they control policy generation and governance.

[–] Zyansheep@vlemmy.net 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Based on your definition of what it means to be "anti-capitalist" vs "anti-market" I think there may be a difference between the definitions of capitalism we are working under. Could you give me your definition of capitalism?

While I do understand that non democratically accountable forms of economic activity may harmful or explotative in many situations, I do also see the argument for private ownership of "the means of production", in so far as it can be beneficial to the overall effectiveness and efficiency of production and innovation. I don't think anyone can scientifically or even philosophically completely justify one economic system over the other, and that so far, a mix of the two has been what most countries have settled on.

Capitalism means that we vote with our dollar and when those with capital have more votes and those without, they control policy generation and governance.

One last thing I'd like to point out, while in capitalism, the collective choices of those with money decide what products are made and services provided, this decision power doesn't (and shouldn't!) in well-functioning democracies extend to the government. I do understand the concern of large accumulations of wealth causing large imbalances of power which then affects government policy, and I believe this is a major problem (especially generational wealth). But I do not believe it is one that cannot be prevented and protected against, nor do I believe it is a defining property of "capitalism".

[–] version_unsorted@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

On the topic of efficiency: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/3/17/the-tragic-downside-of-efficiency

[–] version_unsorted@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

These seem good: https://www.wordnik.com/words/capitalism

from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

noun An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

from The Century Dictionary.

noun The state of having capital or property; possession of capital.
noun The concentration or massing of capital in the hands of a few; also, the power or influence of large or combined capital.

from the GNU version of the Collaborative International Dictionary of English.

noun An economic system based on predominantly private (individual or corporate) investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods and wealth; contrasted with socialism or especially communism, in which the state has the predominant role in the economy.

from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License.

noun politics, uncountable a socio-economic system based on private property rights, including the private ownership of resources or capital, with economic decisions made largely through the operation of a market unregulated by the state.
noun economics, uncountable a socio-economic system based on the abstraction of resources into the form of privately-owned capital, with economic decisions made largely through the operation of a market unregulated by the state.
noun countable a specific variation or implementation of either such socio-economic system.

noun an economic system based on private ownership of capital

[–] Zyansheep@vlemmy.net 1 points 2 years ago

Most of these definitions (with the exception of the Century Dictionary) would suggest a definition for "anti-capitalism" as primarily being against an economic system based on private ownership of capital, not the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. While these two things are compatible and perhaps even causal, they don't inherently require each other. You can have extreme wealth in a non capitalist system, or a capitalist system with strong caps on wealth accumulation. Perhaps a better description for your position would be "anti-extreme wealth" rather than "anti-capitalism"?

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