this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2023
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[–] Sarla@lemmy.world 50 points 2 years ago (11 children)

You can tell that this audience is primarily American because they still defend capitalism, even after being shafted by it over and over. Careful everyone, big bad socialism is going to take your kids and your wife!

Don't dare dream of something better, instead keep swallowing the propaganda of the state and its controlling elites.

[–] Coach@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

American here and fuck capitalism.

[–] Fredselfish@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Man socialism keeps sounding better and better they will even take those pesky wife and kids off my hands/s.

But in serious most Americans don't know shit about socialism our capitalism they live under. Dumb fucks look at you with surprise when you mention our highway system would be considered socialist program.

[–] Feweroptions@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sounds interesting, what does that mean?

[–] Fredselfish@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Roads and streets are funded 100% from taxs which make them a social program. I know not true 100% socialism but it's as close as the United States will allow.

Also most Americans always going on especially fucking Republicans and their voter base about how the government should be run like a business. But don't realize the government should never be ran as one.

The corruption already bad enough.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The closest you get in America to socialism is public libraries and free school meals. And they managed to make the latter controversial and, if not, incredibly shitty.

[–] Fredselfish@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago

And the GOP and their far right cronies are trying to get public libraries shut down.

[–] PizzasDontWearCapes@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They should be forced to run their businesses as businesses - no more buyouts

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

All these big names seriously run their businesses like social programs.

[–] DeanFogg@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

Yeah, run America like Elon runs Twitter. Absolutely brain dead

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

which make them a social program. I know not true 100% socialism

This is part of the problem of people not knowing what socialism even is. Even the ancient slavery systems could have social programs (for example famed Roman grain handouts in Rome), and the first modern, universal state funded social programs were introduced in 1889 in German Empire. neither of them was by any means socialist because socialism is not when the government does stuff.

[–] Faresh@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

socialism is not when the government does stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq0EYo_ZQVU

Just wanted to put the clip here. :D

[–] Evkob@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 years ago

Hey now, that's unfair!

As à Canadian, I can attest that we also blindly defend capitalism.

[–] RedCanasta@lemmy.fmhy.ml 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

We are poor and our freedoms are exploited, but at least we're free!

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago

That's right, real freedom is being able to scream into the void without actually having the power to improve your material conditions. :)

[–] Silviecat44@vlemmy.net 5 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Is there a communism society that has succeeded? Lol

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Can you name a pure capitalist state that's succeeded without socialist elements keeping it afloat?

Follow-up: Why hand money to the leeches that do nothing but own shit rather than the workers that fuel the economy?

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well I'm not starving and I can choose how to live my life.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

I'm not currently dying, so that's about as much as I can ask for.

You do see how cucked you are, right?

[–] Airgoof@vlemmy.net 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Maybe solution is somewhere in the middle, not one of extremes?

[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago

We've already tried the middle

[–] Silviecat44@vlemmy.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If you can't point to an actual capitalist society that's succeeded, why would there be any meaning in pointing out a communist one that has?

[–] Silviecat44@vlemmy.net 1 points 2 years ago (4 children)
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[–] Cynosure@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Most socialist states are better after their revolutions as opposed to before. The USSR went from a borderline feudal society to putting people in orbit in 50 years. Additionaly, socialist states outperform capitalist ones in similar wealth categories.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 years ago

The USSR collapsed and it was later discovered that it had major internal issues

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

who says the only alternative to a shafting capitalism like you have in the states is pure communism?

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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[–] irmoz@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago

That would be a decent question if we had examples of socialist experiments that were actually left alone to develop and not invaded 2 sevonds after america heard about them

[–] Cynosure@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Most socialist states are better after their revolutions as opposed to before. The USSR went from a borderline feudal society to putting people in orbit in 50 years. Additionaly, socialist states outperform capitalist ones in similar wealth categories.

[–] Silviecat44@vlemmy.net 1 points 2 years ago

Did they get to the moon? /s

Anyway they aren’t around today without capitalism (modern russia) so your point is kind of useless

[–] nothacking@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Communism does not have a good track record in places like Poland. After the absolute shithole that the PRL was, I dont kniw how you except people to defend communism.

[–] shuzuko@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Did they say communism? I don't think they said communism. In fact, I'm pretty certain they said socialism, which is not the same thing unless you're a propagandized American who licks boots.

Communism is not the only alternative to capitalism, my dude.

[–] Aqua@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

Absolutely correct.

[–] fuklu@lemmy.fmhy.ml 4 points 2 years ago

Depends on what you mean by socialism. All systems have upsides and downsides. Late stage capitalism in the US has a lot of downsides, but workers taking over the means of production does not have a good track record.

[–] Zyansheep@vlemmy.net 2 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I like capitalism. It is cool sometimes.

(Comment gets downvoted to oblivion)

[–] lokoluis15@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Because it's unsustainable and actively degenerates everything in its environment in pursuit of an insatiable need for capital growth.

Saying capitalism isn't that bad is like saying early stage cancer isn't that bad. It doesn't change the nature of the cancer and what it will become unabated.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Careful this sub is full of people who are actual communists.

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[–] version_unsorted@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Anti-capitalism is centered around removing power from holding capital. By tying power to capital, there is an incentive to accumulate capital in disproportionate exchange.

Anti-capitalism is NOT anti-market. Markets are an economic tool used in all economies. Socialism is offered as an alternative to shift power to collective agreement through direct vote (direct democracy) or reprentative agreement (republic). By not granting economic goverance to a democratic government, there is a limitation on the ability to keep commodities responsibly sourced and consumed.

Capitalism means that we vote with our dollar and when those with capital have more votes and those without, they control policy generation and governance.

[–] Zyansheep@vlemmy.net 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Based on your definition of what it means to be "anti-capitalist" vs "anti-market" I think there may be a difference between the definitions of capitalism we are working under. Could you give me your definition of capitalism?

While I do understand that non democratically accountable forms of economic activity may harmful or explotative in many situations, I do also see the argument for private ownership of "the means of production", in so far as it can be beneficial to the overall effectiveness and efficiency of production and innovation. I don't think anyone can scientifically or even philosophically completely justify one economic system over the other, and that so far, a mix of the two has been what most countries have settled on.

Capitalism means that we vote with our dollar and when those with capital have more votes and those without, they control policy generation and governance.

One last thing I'd like to point out, while in capitalism, the collective choices of those with money decide what products are made and services provided, this decision power doesn't (and shouldn't!) in well-functioning democracies extend to the government. I do understand the concern of large accumulations of wealth causing large imbalances of power which then affects government policy, and I believe this is a major problem (especially generational wealth). But I do not believe it is one that cannot be prevented and protected against, nor do I believe it is a defining property of "capitalism".

[–] Cfreeze@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Why complain when capitalism ruins something that it created? Isn't that how it works? Something else will come along and don't better or differently and people will flock to it until it sucks too.

[–] Ookami38@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If I don't swallow the propaganda, I don't swallow anything. We're hungry, man.

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[–] rumbleran@suppo.fi 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Finnish person here to say fuck socialism.

What are your criticisms of how Finland is run?