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The One Percent (lemmy.world)

submitted 6 days ago by sgumi@lemmy.world to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world

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[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You might have heard of the tragedy of the commons. It's long since debunked, even the wikipedia article includes Solutions. The TLDR is that people are willing to follow rules and "police" each other once they are included in the process of creating the rules. It isn't necessary that everyone is a good person, you just need a critical mass and a culture that sanctions selfish behavior instead of promoting is as ours does. SRSLY WRONG has a good podcast episode about commons

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You got some countries that it has worked long term?

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Ostrom helped disprove the idea held by economists that natural resources would be over-used and destroyed in the long run. Elinor Ostrom disproved this idea by conducting field studies on how people in small, local communities manage shared natural resources, such as pastures, fishing waters in Maine and Indonesia, and forests in Nepal. She showed that when natural resources are jointly managed by their users, in time, rules are established for how these are to be cared for and used in a way that is both economically and ecologically sustainable.

source

For a deeper dive watch this video or the afore mentioned podcast episode.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

She showed that when natural resources are jointly managed by their users, in time, rules are established for how these are to be cared for and used in a way that is both economically and ecologically sustainable.

Until one tech bro or finance guy comes along. So no countries then. Don't you think in the last hundreds of years of recorded history that you could have come up with one?

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Well, she was born in 1933 so her fieldwork took place less than 100 years ago...

Also great moving the goal post on your side. You said pure socialism doesn't work and asked for long term, I gave you that. Now you say this isn't within the last hundreds of years which is wrong. If by country you mean nation state, I can't give you an example and I'm pretty sure this is the only thing you take out of this comment. There are alternatives to nation states. If you ask for people fighting today for a stateless society, look up Rojava or the Zapatistas. If this is too far away from Europe for you, look up the anarchosyndicalists in Spain less than a century ago. If you have specific criteria, maybe give them beforehand. If you are a troll, go fuck yourself. Also big citation needed that one techbro destroyed the forest commons in Nepal.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Not moving goal posts. Last comment because you're obviously not wanting to answer. A successful socialist country or nation state is what I'm asking for and have been asking for all along.

Name one country or nation state that has made it work long term (let's say 10 years) in the last HUNDREDS of years. Pick a century, any century. You can choose from any time period you want.

I know this is breaking your brain, good luck.

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

To make it more obvious that already: I'm an anarchist. I am against nation states. I do not believe in socialist states because I am against all states. I gave you enough examples of non- and anti-state projects already. The liberation of Kobane is a little more than 10 years ago so Rojava. The Zapatistas declared independence in 1994. The commons discussed earlier went on for centuries in areas big enough to be several states. But they don't count because they didn't have a head of state, three levels of administration and a parliament?

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You think this is a situation to be envious of?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Koban%C3%AE

I think we're not only on the same page, but at different libraries. Good luck to you.

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

YPG-led forces recapture the whole of Kobanî city in late January 2015

So counting the recapture, it's a little less than 10 years but [t]he region gained its de facto autonomy in 2012 which is 12 years and counting. I hope you didn't think I sided with the Islamic State for some reason which sieged the city for 6 months.

Edit: Or are you victim blaming them for being attacked by the IS? In that case, I don't want to enter your library...

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Aren't we going back to a Bernie Sanders thing? A socialist democracy.

The AANES has widespread support for its universal democratic, sustainable, autonomous, pluralist, equal, and feminist policies in dialogues with other parties and organizations.[

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 points 5 days ago

Both democracy and socialism have a wide range of meanings. AANES has a confederal council democracy, a much more direct democracy than the US or any other nation state. Their concept of socialism is much more radical than Sanders's.