this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2024
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Been reading through my usual posts and this thought popped up in my head. Did a bit of searching and now I'm curious what y'all's analysis is on this. And how potentially the CCP will respond to climate related consequences in the coming decades since they are becoming an increasingly massive superpower and their actions will have global impacts for the rest of the world.

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[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

I agree with all of your points except the first... and kind of the last.

We are past 1.5C.

We don't need to 'peak', to stop raising CO2 emmissions, we need them to drop, precipitously, very, very quickly.

It is indisputably true that developed nations are responsible for most of the historical CO2 emmissions when taken altogether...

But they have largely actually lowered their CO2 emmissions in the last decades, and as your own first linked article states, China is responsible for about half the CO2 emmissions since 2000, and that China's total historical CO2 emmissions now exceed the EU's total historical CO2 emmissions.

I completely agree that China is leading in solar and EV production, that these are very good things, and that the US shifting to natural gas is basically a bullshit PR stunt to claim natural gas somehow doesn't count as a fossil fuel.

... But I don't think its good to just massively fanboy/girl ('uncritical support'?) over China, as basically all the other posts in this thread up untill I posted mine have done, without acknowledging the giant elephant in the room that is China's just utterly massive use of coal and new coal plant starts in the last two decades.

China is not some kind of magical green utopia.

They may be building the components of a post carbon future, but they're doing so with astounding amounts of burnt coal.

[–] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 19 points 3 months ago (1 children)

We are past 1.5C.

True, but I think it's still a valid target for assigning responsibility. The math would be the same regardless of the threshold you pick; US is overbudget, China is underbudget.

We don't need to 'peak', to stop raising CO2 emmissions, we need them to drop, precipitously, very, very quickly.

They gotta peak before they start dropping, that's kinda the definition.

But they have largely actually lowered their CO2 emmissions in the last decades, and as your own first linked article states, China is responsible for about half the CO2 emmissions since 2000...

That's because they're making all of our shit now. The EU is importing some 1.2 billion tons of CO2e a year now (a third of their consumption-related emissions), something that tends to get left out of these graphs.

and that China's total historical CO2 emmissions now exceed the EU's total historical CO2 emmissions.

No they don't, where are you getting your numbers from?

Even if they were, you're eliding the per capita component of consumption. China's cumulative per capita emissions don't even make the top 20.. What are the Chinese people supposed to do, live on air?

But I don't think its good to just massively fanboy/girl ('uncritical support'?) over China, as basically all the other posts in this thread up untill I posted mine have done

I think it's fair to stay skeptical, but if you compare China's progress with the US's, you'll see why the users are on here are gushing. They're the only ones giving the world anything to hope for at this point.

They may be building the components of a post carbon future, but they're doing so with astounding amounts of burnt coal.

Better than what the US/EU are doing, which is building nothing with astounding amounts of burnt coal, gas, and oil. You can't just magic PV and wind turbines out of nothing, you have to use your current energy mix, and China's doing that to make more progress than the rest of the world combined.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

and that China's total historical CO2 emmissions now exceed the EU's total historical CO2 emmissions.

No they don't, where are you getting your numbers from?

As I said, literally right before you cropped my quote:

and as your own first linked article states,

https://archive.is/KY2Ey

As of last year, China had emitted more than the European Union since industrialization started, according to Carbon Brief, a climate-focused publication, although it remains far behind the total output of the United States over the same period.

Its the sentence under the graph, in my last post which is also from the article you linked.

[–] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Fair 'nuff, missed that in the article. That said, though, a country of 1.4 billion eclipsing a region of 448 million (based on current population) isn't exactly earth-shattering, especially if you consider that including the UK would put the EU back on top and that the table Carbon Brief provides includes per capita emissions.

Wanna address anything else I said or just the one thing I messed up?

[–] Saeculum@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago

and that China's total historical CO2 emmissions now exceed the EU's total historical CO2 emmissions.

That's largely due to the UK no longer being counted, and the UK's total emissions were a huge chunk.