hexbear
Hexbear Proposals chapo.chat matrix room.
This will be a place for site proposals and discussion before implementation on the site.
Every proposal will also be mirrored into a pinned post on the hexbear community.
Any other ideas for helping to integrate the two spaces are welcome to be commented here or messaged to me directly.
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All top level messages within the channel must be a Proposals (idea for changing the site), Feedback (regarding non-technical aspects of the site, for technical please use https://hexbear.net/c/feedback), or Appeals (regarding admin/moderator actions).
Discussion regarding these will be within nested threads under the post.
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The linked thread does not include a single derogatory use of the word incel, every time it is brought up it comes from people who struggle with the common usage of the term and call out virgin shaming. I find this to be represenative of the site in general, from my experience on here incel is exclusively or almost exclusively used for the sect of ideologically committed online ultra-misogynists, not for "person who doesn't have sex". The virgin shaming, body shaming and ableism that are inextricably linked to reactionary, non-feminist callouts of incels are all against site policy and are, from what i see, removed reliably by mods. I fully stand behind that. As a queer person i do have criticisms of hexbear's site culture in regards to sex, but these are that the site can be both aggressively sex negative and still too lenient on purging misogynists.
Speaking of which, this thread leaves me with the clear impression that you are making up a problem that doesn't exist. It comes off as an attempt at tone-policing and silencing feminist critique, and of you placing a protection of fragile masculinity above the safety concerns of women. I exclusively call people incels when they are the ideologically committed kind, i do not use the term when i do not mean these particular online communities and i view that as the common usage of the term on this site. Nothing about that is problematic. There is no reason to protect the incel community, there is no reason to feel pity for misogynists, there is particularly no reason to make the self-descriptor of a very specific hate group a "no-no word". Doing so needlessly complicates accurate designation of some of my worst enemies, some of the biggest threats to my safety in my day to day life, one of the main reasons why i do not use most online spaces anymore and the flat-out main reason why i cannot be part of non-queer nerd communities any longer. Gamergate and its consequences would've been impossible without incels. 4chan would not have gone the way it did without them. Incel culture has poisoned most of my hobbies and made it impossible to engage in them without hand-picking and vetting the people i do that with. And even that seems like a trivial afterthought when i think about what incels have done to other women. These shitheads have killed people. There have been actual acts of terrorism motivated by their ideology. Where is your concern about that? Why should i assume good faith from you when you make a thread like this after your behavior in past struggle sessions? I see a clear pattern here and i'm not ok with it.
Great post!
good post
Thanks for posting this, I struggled with finding the right words to explain why the op bothers me so much and your comment made it clear to me. Virgins are not a systemically oppressed group. Incel is a term for a specific ideology but could be used as insult. Using it as insult is mean but that doesn’t make it a slur. The ideology it describes is dangerous and harms women, it is important that the ideology gets called out continuously for the safety of the women that might fall victim to people who subscribe to that ideology.
I mean, just to make it clear: I am absolutely, 100% against shaming people who don't have sex, be that because they are involuntarily celibate, asexual, in a longterm relationship where one or both partners just do not have much of a libido anymore or w/e. There definitely is a repressive, ideological component around mocking people who don't get laid, it is commonly rooted in a patriarchal understanding of sexual "conquest" and bragging rights, frequently intertwines with forms of systemic opression like ableism and allonormativity etc.
That should be called out, and from my experience, it usually is on here. Outside of hexbear, i've also seen people use the word incel in ways that legitimately piss me off. But on here? It's a descriptor for a women-hating online subculture that builds an identity around being intrinsically unfuckable because they do not meet or think they do not meet criteria purported by other adherents of the "redpill" or "manosphere" ideology. It makes sense to be able to identify them, just as we can correctly identify other subsets of that anti-feminist movement like MGTOW / fathers' rights activists, PUAs / Tate-style hustlegrind pyramid scheme subscribers and so on.