The fascist movement was the "revolution." If you're saying that the Soviets caused this by beating the Nazis and the Axis powers in World War II, you're siding with the Nazis.

Leading rabbinical circles in New York received a cable early in November from corresponding circles in Vienna that “Jewish blood is being shed by the rebels in Hungary.” Very much later-in February, 1957-the World Jewish Congress reported that “anti-Semitic excesses occurred in more than twenty villages and smaller provincial towns during the October-November revolt.” This occurred, according to this very conservative body, because “fascist and anti-Semitic groups had apparently seized the opportunity, presented by the absence of a central authority, to come to the surface.” Many among the Jewish refugees from Hungary, the report continued, had fled from this anti-Semitic pogrom-like atmosphere (N.Y. Times, Feb. 15, 1957). This confirmed the earlier report made by the British Rabbi, R. Pozner, who, after touring refugee camps, declared that “the majority of Jews who left Hungary did so for fear of the Hungarians and not the Russians.” The Paris Jewish newspaper, Naye Presse, asserted that Jewish refugees in France claimed quite generally that Soviet soldiers had saved their lives."

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Leading rabbinical circles in New York received a cable early in November from corresponding circles in Vienna that “Jewish blood is being shed by the rebels in Hungary.”

That's hearsay.

Very much later-in February, 1957-the World Jewish Congress reported that “anti-Semitic excesses occurred in more than twenty villages and smaller provincial towns during the October-November revolt.” This occurred, according to this very conservative body, because “fascist and anti-Semitic groups had apparently seized the opportunity, presented by the absence of a central authority, to come to the surface.” Many among the Jewish refugees from Hungary, the report continued, had fled from this anti-Semitic pogrom-like atmosphere (N.Y. Times, Feb. 15, 1957). This confirmed the earlier report made by the British Rabbi, R. Pozner, who, after touring refugee camps, declared that “the majority of Jews who left Hungary did so for fear of the Hungarians and not the Russians.” The Paris Jewish newspaper, Naye Presse, asserted that Jewish refugees in France claimed quite generally that Soviet soldiers had saved their lives."

You already posted all of that. Since your memory is struggling, drag will help you by repeating what drag said when you said all that the first time:

Perhaps if the revolutionaries had been allowed to seize the government and impose order, they would have put down the opportunistic fascist movement. Instead, it seems at first glance that the USSR sent their tanks in to cause chaos, created the lawlessness that allowed the fascists to fester, and then took credit for solving the problem they themselves caused.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

No, it seems that drag ks working overtime to sympathize with Nazi collaborators upset that they had to pay reparations for the devastation and genocide they contributed to during World War II. These were not "revolutionaries." Hungary had a problem with Nazis since World War II and even before that, to blame the Soviets for Hungarians siding with the Nazis is so utterly confused that it can only be interpreted as deliberate bad-faith.

Genuinely, from me to drag, why does drag do this? Why does drag bat so hard for Nazi collaborators and against Socialists in the real world when it is absolutely clear when the Socialists were in the right?

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 0 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Drag is needling you to provide a source that the revolutionaries and the nazis were the same group, or at the very least allied. You've only given one sentence of source, and it's hearsay. Drag wants you to give compelling evidence. Accusations aren't worth anything without strong evidence, so drag is confused why you're wasting time when you could give more sources. Seems like you favour rhetoric and guilt trips over proof.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I've given drag several books and articles, like drag asked. Thanks for confirming for me that you lied about wanting sources and just want to troll, I suppose.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Drag read the book cover to cover and didn't see anything about the revolutionaries being the same people as the fascists, apart from that one sentence. If you say there's proof in the book, prove it. Drag read it and couldn't find any. Drag is starting to think you're the one who didn't read it.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

"The" book? I linked several. drag is trying to draw a hard demarcation within a group that worked together, I already shared them with drag. Doing a "they weren't Nazis, they just sided with the Nazis against the Socialists" bit to defend pro-fascist, anti-communist murderers is dishonest.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Drag read the book, and they didn't side with the fascists at all. Read the book, please.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Englighten me, drag. What did the counter-revolutionaries spend their time doing when they weren't working with the Nazis against the Socialists?

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 0 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Maybe you could read the book and find out

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Maybe drag could stop defending Nazi sympathizers that lynched Communists and Jewish people as "revolutionaries." If the Soviets gave power to the Nazi sympathizers, the pograms would have continued. Seems the origin of the Nazi problem was the Nazis, and not the anti-fascist Red Army.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

How come you think communists are Nazis?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I think lynching the Communist, Soviet officials and Jewish people is a pretty Nazi thing to do, especially coming from people that sided with the Nazis in World War II and were being made to pay reparations for doing so. drag has no coherent ideology other than getting upset at Communists to the point of defending Nazis.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

So you're a McCarthyist? You hate communism?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Not sure how that connects, I support AES and I'm a Marxist-Leninist, the target of McCarthyism. drag calling people lynching the Soviets as "Communists" is very silly, the Communists and peasants in Hungary opposed the Nazis who were lynching Communists and Jewish people.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

The USSR was neoliberal.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Very silly to call a publicly owned and planned economy where the Working Class was in power "neoliberal." Words have meaning because people need to communicate, just calling everything random names doesn't help that.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

It wasn't publicly owned. That requires democracy. The people didn't own the government, and the government owned the means of production, so the people didn't own them. The government was a private entity.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 54 minutes ago

The Soviet Union was democratic. They had a structure called Soviet Democracy, elaborated on in Soviet Democracy, written by Pat Sloan. It looked like this in practice:

The people participated in and owned the government.
The government was not a "private entity," that's deeply silly.

Even if all of what drag said was true, it still would not be neoliberal, itself an ideology surrounding privatization and international Capitalism. drag has been explained all of this before, though, drag is just a Nazi-defending troll, so drag doesn't actually care.