this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2023
2990 points (99.8% liked)
linuxmemes
21378 readers
1480 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
- These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't fork-bomb your computer.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
First time I agree with the Raven. Switch to Linux!!! Windows is just a shitshow, we all watch and can't believe they are doing this. Win 11 will bring us one of the biggest hardware-waste ever in a world where we should spare with resources.
But hey, throw that 4GB RAM machine in the trash bin everyone wants Win11. So glossy and shiny, so hot right now.
Do you know what makes windows great? It just works out of the box with broad driver and software compatibility. Extensive hardware support (Windows 10 runs on any brand new hardware as well as old hardware from 12 years ago). Many professional software applications, such as Adobe Creative Cloud, Autodesk products, and Microsoft Office, are primarily developed for Windows. If you rely on specific professional software, Windows offes better compatibility and support.
Linux offers better security and has a large repository of open source software as well as being very developer friendly. If you're reading this it's thanks to Linux. However switching to Linux isn't a viable option for everyone for the aforementioned points. It surprises me to this day how many smart and tech savvy individuals still can't grasp this concept.
Yeah, I'm going to have to call you on that whole "Windows just works"TM business. I just had to install drivers, during setup, for a regular hard drive in Windows Server 2019. Last time I tried to run the game Rust on Windows 11 it just wouldn't run and I blew hours and never could find a solution. Had to go back to Win 10 to get it to run. It's also pretty easy to pay attention to any news feed and see an endless string of Windows is now broken like X on basically a weekly basis at this point. MS Fired their entire QA team and only tests on virtual machines now. Zero surprise Windows breaks in all sorts of new and interesting ways when it finally meets the real world. Anyone who makes this statement is at best naive and at worst a bold face liar/shill. I do try to assume most people are the prior of course.
That said the rest of your statement is spot on. Right tool for the right job will never not be relevant.
At least for me I haven't had any issues with Win11.
Linux is just too much work, even as someone who knows how to use it a decent amount. Even getting something basic to work that works out of the box with windows takes too much googling
I love Linux though and I can't wait for the day when it's a drop-in replacement for windows (if that happens). That said it's gotten a lot better over the years and is really close in some regards
I bet you tried a bunch of years ago, and then you were correct. Today is quite different, just boot up a new Linux mint from a usb stick and check it out (no installation needed).
Linux Mint desktop background is so ugly though ☺️😭😁 so brace yourself!
It's situational, I'll tell you that. I build PCs and repair them as a side hassle and I'm not saying I never come across issues with Windows (even dating back to the XP days) but I find the troubleshoot process much easier than on Linux regardless of the distro. What I mostly come across is viruses and malwares which I have to clean up on those machines.
I would love if you could elaborate on that, I don't want to misunderstand. If I have to guess, for some users the "real world" doesn't go past office work.
I don't doubt a serious Linux power user would find their way out of most situations. The steep learning curve for Linux is what's keeping most people (the ones who don't need rely on Windows for some types of exclusive softwares) from switching. When I first "switched" I was a 16 year old with a lot of time to spare and I started figuring it out to an extent. Can't say the same about everyone, at least not the people that come to me asking me how to stop programs from opening on their own at startup.
I suppose I can search the internet for you.
QA team fired. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140806183208-12100070-why-did-microsoft-lay-off-programmatic-testers/
A few of the big issues I could find with a real quick search. Just yesterday... https://www.techspot.com/news/99291-buggy-windows-11-update-could-slowing-down-ssds.html
Problem since march, just now fixed, article from today. https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-finally-manages-to-fix-windows-11-defender-local-security-authority-protection-off/
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/microsoft-still-working-on-fix-for-high-cpu-utilization-in-windows-11-file
https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/13/23553370/microsoft-start-menu-taskbar-shortcuts-windows-disappearing-it
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-11-snipping-tool-privacy-bug-exposes-cropped-image-content/
https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/24/23735639/microsoft-surface-pro-x-camera-not-working-error-fix
https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/30/23485717/microsoft-windows-11-gaming-performance-issues-fix
https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/4/22763641/microsoft-windows-11-expired-certificate-snipping-tool-emoji-picker-issues
https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/28/22407995/microsoft-windows-apps-rearranging-sleep-resume-fix-directx-12
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/9/10952524/microsoft-edge-windows-10-update-inprivate-fix
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/6/17944966/microsoft-windows-10-october-2018-update-documents-deleted-issues-windows-update-paused
MS breaking other peoples software, chrome in this case https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/malwarebytes-issues-fix-for-chrome-broken-by-windows-11-kb5027231/
I mean, the problems go on and on and on. https://www.theverge.com/search?q=windows+problem&page=1
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/search/?cx=partner-pub-0920899300397823%3A3529943228&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=windows+problem
To be entirely clear Linux isn't without problems either but your statement "It just works out of the box..." is patently false.
The problem is that we’ve all learned to work around all the issues Windows poses. This becomes the status quo and we forget how much work and time it took to learn all these hacks and work around over time. At some point applying them all is just what you do. It’s normal now and business as usual which feels like it just works. But it doesn’t.
Printers suck universally, no matter the OS. It's something everyone can agree on.
I had the opposite experience, I couldn't find drivers on Linux for my old Audio Interface (M Audio) from the 2000s but I was able to find an installer for windows on some website and ran just fine on Windows 10. This isn't even the issue with old tech, if I can't find drivers (on either OS) for a 15 years old Audio interface, it's not the end of the world, I just have to accept it. What I find troublesome is sometimes getting modern hardware to work on Linux, especially something that was never designed to work on it.
I remember Nvidia putting their driver into GeForce Experience just before I stopped using Windows completely. It was taking the driver, adding a user interface on it, stuffed ads inside, required a Nvidia account and ran in the tray all the time. :)
I assume it still works like that on windows. It's just filled to the brink with shit like that.
You do realize you can just not install GFE, right?
Sure, but it's the culture of windows. Everything is corporate speak, filled with ads, and taking over the users computer. I got so sick of it all.
Linux is amazing. It just gets out of the way and provides a fast smooth system that never slows down. Has an excellent fast command line and many great applications handled by a very fast and efficient package manager...I mean, it's just so much better that it's no going back.
"Gets out of the way"
Yeah I will stop you right there buddy.
I spent an hour trying to get my Broadcomm wifi card working on Debian. Gave up...
Windows is a bit easier, you need to find the right package, but then it's just one "next next next install" away
Literally one command away.
My BCM4352 uses wl, https://wiki.debian.org/wl, sadly didn't get it working. Fortunately, I don't need WiFi on this machine
And for most people, terminal = no.
There are other ways than terminal. I just found it the easiest way to show the list of available drivers in Debian with a single command.
Also I call bullshit on that "terminal = no". If people are capable of copy pasting URL they are capable of copying single line of text as well. Even if someone is afraid of terminal it provides a lot less ambiguity and should give it a shot. It doesn't require navigating through user interface which has tendency to change over time while following someone's instructions or images which might leave out the step or fail to include where to click, move, open then go to tab, 3rd row down, click open... etc. Besides nothing happens if you make a mistake. World doesn't end. Computer doesn't explode.
Windows has been GUI only for end users for 22 years by now...
Yes because terminal syntax and binaries can't change either, right?
Windows has not been GUI only. It also has terminal and configuration through it.
"for end users"
Yes, lets ignore that.
Linux is not more secure really, it's just assumed to be so because it's less widely attacked for having less market share
Nah, you have a user, it cannot mess with another user, by design.
In windows you can do so many crappy things it's incredible, like rescue boot and just change the crowd strike executables with a notepad++ exe aaand you are "free!"
The security holes ae trash too, you can't deny that. Corporate PCs are plagued with "anti virus" and other scanning softs, sending your every keystroke to some authentication server so see if no malicious intent is detected.
If you want to do something efficient, Windows is no longer the way IMO.
Extensive hardware support is not really true. Windows is supported by hardware manufacturers because it's popular, but Microsoft isn't the one making drivers. So Windows doesn't have extensive hardware support since after installing the OS you have to spend time installing drivers which manufacturers made otherwise it's almost unusable.
Saying that Windows has driver support means that drivers are supported by the system (because they exist and are available) regardless of the driver's provider. The entities providing the drivers are essentially what gives Windows support.
Sure you have to spend time installing drivers just like you would have to spend time installing any type of software on a machine to achieve the operating function you require. I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to say here.
You are using "support" instead of "capability". Having capability of installing drivers is pretty much given to any operating system. Said drivers being provided for the operating system in question is a hardware manufacturer thing. Microsoft doesn't provide support for drivers, they provide capability of installing drivers. Microsoft is not involved in development process of said drivers not do they offer technical support in resolving issues regarding them. The fact Windows is the most popular means most manufacturers will support Windows but that has nothing to do with Microsoft other than charging for that sticker they put on boxes.
If you buy nVidia card, it's nVidia that supports Windows, not that Windows supports nVidia. nVidia made the effort to develop and test software on that operating system, is providing technical support for that software, has upgrade paths, etc. Windows is just there and popular.
This is completely asinine, you need to read up on your history. Microsoft literally created DirectX in 95 to help developers for software and hardware develop multimedia drivers and applications for windows.
"In late 1994, Microsoft was ready to release Windows 95, its next operating system. An important factor in the value consumers would place on it was the programs that would be able to run on it. Microsoft employee Alex St. John had been in discussions with various game developers asking how likely they would be to bring their MS-DOS games to Windows 95, and found the responses mostly negative; programmers had found that the Windows environment did not provide the necessary features which were available under MS-DOS using BIOS routines or direct hardware access.[6] There were also strong fears of compatibility; a notable case of this was from Disney's Animated Storybook: The Lion King which was based on the WinG programming interface.[7] Due to numerous incompatible graphics drivers from new Compaq computers that were not tested with the WinG interface which came bundled with the game, it crashed so frequently on many desktop systems that parents had flooded Disney's call-in help lines.[8][9]
St. John recognized the resistances for game development under Windows would be a limitation, and recruited two additional engineers, Craig Eisler and Eric Engstrom, to develop a better solution to get more programmers to develop games for Windows. The project was codenamed the Manhattan Project, like the World War II project of the same name, and the idea was to displace the Japanese-developed video game consoles with personal computers running Microsoft's operating system.[8] It had initially used the radiation symbol as its logo but Microsoft asked the team to change the logo.[8] Management did not agree to the project as they were already writing off Windows as a gaming platform, but the three committed towards this project's development.[9] Their rebellious nature led Brad Silverberg, the senior vice president of Microsoft's office products, to name the trio the "Beastie Boys".[10] "
Its also completely foolish to think that the driver engineers from any specific company don't have a corporate support line to contact if they need help with something or a personal contact they could bounce ideas off of.
The whole point of an OS is to streamline the process it takes to run your applications. No matter how great it is for you, Linux does not do that for everyone.