this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
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I wish writing SQL queries was more popular than ORMs (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by cyclohexane@lemmy.ml to c/programming@programming.dev
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Some backend libraries let you write SQL queries as they are and deliver them to the database. They still handle making the connection, pooling, etc.

ORMs introduce a different API for making SQL queries, with the aim to make it easier. But I find them always subpar to SQL, and often times they miss advanced features (and sometimes not even those advanced).

It also means every time I use a ORM, I have to learn this ORM's API.

SQL is already a high level language abstracting inner workings of the database. So I find the promise of ease of use not to beat SQL. And I don't like abstracting an already high level abstraction.

Alright, I admit, there are a few advantages:

  • if I don't know SQL and don't plan on learning it, it is easier to learn a ORM
  • if I want better out of the box syntax highlighting (as SQL queries may be interpreted as pure strings)
  • if I want to use structures similar to my programming language (classes, functions, etc).

But ultimately I find these benefits far outweighed by the benefits of pure sql.

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[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

ORMs introduce a different API for making SQL queries, with the aim to make it easier.

I wouldn't say that, but instead, that they strive to keep everything contained in one language/stack/deployment workflow, with the benefit of code reusability (for instance, it's completely idiotic, if you ask me, that your models' definition and validation code get duplicated in 3 different application layers (front/API/DB) in as many different languages.

ORMs are not a 100% solution, but do wonders for the first 98% while providing escape hatches for whatever weird case you might encounter, and are overall a net positive in my book. Moreover, while I totally agree that having DB/storage-layer knowledge is super valuable, SQL isn't exactly a flawless language and there's been about 50 years of programming language research since it was invented.

[–] verstra@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You, my friend, should try EdgeDB. A database and an ORM in one.

When you change the data model, you can get to 100%, which you say is impossible for ORMs

[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

This is a project I am already keeping a close eye on, but I would rather qualify it as a "better SQL" than as an alternative to your typical (framework's) ORM. For instance, it won't morph CRUD operations and data migrations into a language/stack that's native to the rest of the project (and by extension, imply learning another language/stack/set of tools...)