this post was submitted on 27 May 2025
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Vivaldi Browser shows "Made with Love in Europe" when you start it for the first time (media.piefed.social)
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[โ€“] lime@feddit.nu 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

the change was probably done quietly because of the extreme reaction the first time.

swedes tend to be to-the-point, and especially in english-language circles we tend to come off as rude even though that's not our intention. it's a cultural thing. kling is also a recovering addict who started his os project as therapy. i can sympathise with his tone but that's because i automatically translate it subconsciously when reading.

also, hen is not equivalent to they. hen is originally a replacement for the longer expression "han/hon" in legal texts, used specifically as "a theoretical person of unknown gender" it's a very recent invention and has not yet made it into general use. we don't really have a generic singular gender-neutral pronoun. it's still applicable here, but the issue was sidestepped entirely by switching to second-person pronouns.

[โ€“] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

the change was probably done quietly because of the extreme reaction the first time.

I'd suggest that a lack of statement is where in this case (the guy even has nazis praising him).

swedes tend to be to-the-point, and especially in english-language circles we tend to come off as rude even though that's not our intention. it's a cultural thing. kling is also a recovering addict who started his os project as therapy. i can completely sympathise with his tone but that's because i automatically translate it subconsciously when reading.

That does make some sense, thank you. I was aware of him being a recovering addict which is one of the reasons that I want to be able to cheer for him as a human being. This could be a good example of where it would be good to learn from Torvalds, who, despite being renowned for his dickishness, took responsibility and acknowledged having said problematic things (it saying things in problematic ways) that made bigots feel more comfortable in his presence than those who were victims of bigotry.

also, hen is not equivalent to they. hen is originally a replacement for the longer expression "han/hon" in legal texts, used specifically as "a theoretical person of unknown gender" it's a very recent invention and has not yet made it into general use. we don't really have a generic singular gender-neutral pronoun. it's still applicable here, but the issue was sidestepped entirely by switching to second-person pronouns.

Thank you very much for clarifying and correcting me.

[โ€“] thatonecoder@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Keep in mind that this happens in many (specially โ€œromanceโ€) languages, because such gender is grammatical, not literal (unlike in English, where he and she are very much so). For example, in Portuguese (my native language), I can refer to a person as a โ€œpessoaโ€ (โ€œfeminineโ€ word gender) โ€” and I can use this to make a grammatically correct, gender-neutral sentence: Ela (essa pessoa) parece bastante simpรกtica. (That person seems quite nice.)

It does not assume gender, as previously mentioned. Since English does not follow the same rules (he/him and she/her refer to actual gender), you can optionally avoid using they/them by using that person's name (or pseudononym): โ€œthatonecoder has some cool projects, although they (the projects) seem to have some flaws. That user seems to be nice, so I might point out some of those issues, in a respectful manner!โ€ (yes, oddly specific example, but I am not very creative, and this gave some ways to refer to a specific person without either using they/them, he/him, or she/her.

Although this video isn't made by me, it is particularly insightful, so I thought I'd share it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf-R7UywbXU

Sorry about this essay, but I really wanted to point this out! If you do have any questions, feel free to ask them!

[โ€“] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Sorry about this essay, but I really wanted to point this out! If you do have any questions, feel free to ask them!

You're replying to someone with AuADHD. I generally have to edit down things before I post and still end up with a fucking novel :D

Thank you for the long and thoughtful reply.

[โ€“] thatonecoder@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

Thanks for your reply, too! I wish every person was as nice as you โ€” sadly, the world is still fucked up, and will remain so, for a long whileโ€ฆ

[โ€“] lime@feddit.nu 4 points 2 days ago

yeah i fully agree that heading a big project should require some sort of sensitivity training. but just like with linux, serenityos and ladybird have sort of become popular around andreas.

it took linus 25 years to finally give in, and his way of speaking before his therapy is just normal vernacular in finland. neither he nor andreas ever wanted to be public figures, and being the centre of a community naturally means you don't see the shit that people on the fringes say. if people hadn't started pushing back and made the leaders aware of the nazi shit there's a big chance they would have never seen it. you need experience with that stuff to see the signs from that position. linus eventually got that experience and changed his ways, but andreas hasn't gotten that chance yet.

also relevant; while linux is massively important, serenity and ladybird are super niche. so linux news get out there, but changes to ladybird governance don't, and people just keep talking about how bad the creator is even though he's not, and he's changed.