the thing about Democrats and 'liberals' is that its a broad coalition of ideologies and political groups competing for power and having to compromise. we all want to bring about our vision of society and help people, but small differences lead to huge schisms. also, monied interests have undue amounts of power over our institutions.

conservatives on the other hand are completely united by cruelty and adherence to rigid heirarchies (in spite of how dysfunctional they are), and basically the only issues they ever have in their own base is that something isn't causing enough pain to people they hate.

i feel it is important to hold our representatives accountable, but saying things like both sides are exactly the same or complaining about liberals as if they are one cohesive entity has no value outside of pushing people away from politics. there are VERY specific people and groups that are making very bad decisions for Americans, like AIPAC or other big donors that simultaneously fund people like Andrew Cuomo and Donald Trump

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (17 children)

Yah I love how places like Lemmy are packed to overflowing with "radical leftists" who scream murder at liberals and moderates and how broadly appealing progressive policies aren't going far enough to address [issue X].

Guys, we're getting literally murdered out there, figuratively and literally. If there was ever a time to start building larger coalitions, it's now. No, you're not getting everything you want. No, we're not having a revolution, we don't have the military. Yes, you will have to compromise. And if you hate that word because you think it means walking alongside someone you despise...

Tough shit.

Pick an issue, gather allies, overwhelm it, then repeat for the NEXT issue and realize nobody is coming, you may not see a better world in your lifetime, your immediate sense of resignation at this fact is manufactured. Get your shit together. Your personal problems are clouding your thinking.

They're winning because they don't recoil in horror at the idea of working towards mid-way goals or making deals they find distasteful, that's how they pushed the overton window off the fucking map.

But yeah, lets continue to fuss over if our flags represent enough people and if [popular content creator] said the word "retard" once, while our administration builds camps and readies for war for funsies.

edit: just because I'm ready to soak up hate on this, you all also need to make real friends. You don't build movements in discord, not ones that have impact at least. You are medicating your loneliness while the world burns outside. Get out and push through the discomfort of your introversion, your ADHD, your ASD, your sexual identity insecurity, your looks or your accent or WHATEVER it is that you think is keeping you from being social and building community. We lost because we're isolated. Online groups don't count. Don't reply to me, go outside.

[–] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Who exactly are you going to form groups with? I am a bit lost on where you would even get started on something like that. Most groups I have seen advertised or have any success are extremists I wouldn't want to be a part of. I don't want to go back to being a Trotskyist just to have any meaningful impact. You berate neurodivergent and queer people specifically as not getting off their ass, yet those are the kinds of people in the ranks of these organisations. It's not like your average person is going to go and join the Labour party either.

Not all situations are like America. Here in the UK the backsliding is happening with the traditionally left leaning party who got in power using after massive fuck ups by the conservatives. So the right wing lost hard, but the other party have moved towards them. So you can't even say it's an issue with the alt-right like America. Instead it's actually an issue with the left wing party and left wing moderates. Voting for and allying with them has enabled this behavior. It has enabled them to go after transgender people specifically. Ironically the conservatives might have actually done better in this case, as they haven't expressed issues with queer people in recent times to my knowledge.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

We are facing a huge problem that nobody seems to be able to identify, which is not voter turnout. The sad, horrible truth is the last couple election cycles we had record turnout and more young people involved than ever before... AND THEY VOTED FOR TRUMP. It's going to happen all across the world as more and more people have access to their little algorithmic ideology bubbles.

So what's the problem? Atomization of groups. Everyone is isolated and not exposed to each other's perspectives and it's making a vacuum that corporations are easily leveraging to get their right-wing puppets installed so they can make line go up. This atomization is literally turning people delusional, and if we don't push back on it we are going to lose not just the USA but all democracy and organization.

We fight it with activity and community and socialization. If it takes screaming at people to get off their asses, I will do that and I will do it in ways that piss people off if it gets attention.

You berate neurodivergent and queer people specifically

Exactly the kind of bad-faith, seething, atomized perspective I want to fight by forcing people like YOU to listen to people like ME who will say things to piss you off and make you reconsider what someone else is saying. We need to do that not on Lemmy but out in bars, in family gatherings, in social media, in public lectures, in town council meetings and so on. Withdrawing now will kill you all. I am being dead serious. This avoidance of conflict except with people who want the same outcome as you is ruining our entire world.

[–] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I already talk politics on normie social media, and in bars, and even to colleagues sometimes. I do all these things, for all the good it might do. You don't fully understand who you are talking to, the demographic you are trying to address, anymore than you understand politics outside of America. Queer and Neurodivergent people are already some of the most radicalised people who fight the most. They make up a good chunk of the alt-right, and much of the alt-left too. You have just spent too much time talking to the chronically online individuals or whatever the term is.

As I said here we had a landslide loss for the right wing party. Mainly because the British people won't tolerate the kinds of scandals that the politicians got up to, certainly we wouldn't tolerate Trump here. The outcome though was the left wing party doing the bad stuff instead. It's not about compromise when people's rights are on the line. I am not saying don't vote where you are, and I certainly voted where I am. It's just at this point that strategy isn't working as well as it should. While screaming at people is great, I don't even know what to tell them to do. Whoever I would tell them to vote for either won't get in, will do harmful things, or are far too radical for normal people to go for, or some combo of the above. Not really convinced that screaming works either. Honey catches more flies than vinegar. Especially with someone like you who is screaming at the wrong people in the wrong way for probably the wrong reasons.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You have just spent too much time talking to the chronically online individuals or whatever the term is.|

I have, and I know it, and those are who I am speaking to the most because that's who are here in sites like this in the most numbers. I am here trying to rally people, even if it's out of spite and anger and offense, to stay involved.

The last presidential election we had has had some of the highest voter participation and youth participation in history, and they still voted for Trump, so the problem isn't exterior, it's coming from inside the house, and as long as we're lamenting and feeling like shit about it, we're falling into their trap.

[–] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

I keep telling you I am not an American, and things don't always or often work that same way outside of America. Though there are parts of Europe struggling with similar issues now. None of what you are saying makes that much sense in the UK. There are young people who want radical right wing policies, but they aren't voting for the mainstream conservative party. They are voting for Reform UK, causing the right wing vote to be split. This split is a large part of why they lost the last election by a country mile. Meanwhile Labour moving right, combined with repeated scandals by the conservatives has lead to even life long conservative voters changing sides. Them moving right has also lead to them being critical of transgender people. Our Labor prime minister has gone so far to say that even transgender women who have a legal certificate should not use Women's spaces. It's crazy honestly. This is the same guy that's pro-nationalization and pro-regulation.

You keep saying we even though we aren't even in the same situation. It seems all you care about is the USA. Honestly I personally think the USA needs to hurry up and collapse already since that's what seems to be happening anyway, and the slow collapse will just cause more issues.

If you want people to cooperate better and get along together the best thing you can tell them to do is to not get involved in politics at all. Politics is a lot of what is causing this division and "atomization" as you call it. Neurodivergent people are easily radicalized by extremists of both sides both alt-left and alt-right. You are better off telling them not to get involved at all if you want people to follow community and stop forming cliques. Of course you aren't going to do that, because you actually have an agenda yourself. I wouldn't tell people to do that either for the same reason. Although actually you could do some targeted voter suppression and disenfranchisement with right-wing people if you wanted to steer things in a left wing direction. If all you care about is winning the vote then you need to start employing and using the same tactics as the alt-right use against everyone else. Pushing radical ideas and policies would be a good step in the right direction, since that's exactly what the alt-right do.

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