this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
351 points (97.6% liked)

politics

19072 readers
3953 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] billwashere@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wish these chucklefucks would realize not all of us believe in god let alone the same one they pray to.

[–] BeanGoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 77 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They do realize this. They see it as a problem that needs fixing.

[–] billwashere@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They seem to forget one of the main reasons people founded this country in the first place. Freedom OF religion includes freedom FROM religion.

[–] mephiska@artemis.camp 17 points 1 year ago

That’s not how they see it though.

[–] Instigate@aussie.zone 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The US Constitution was set up and amended in such a way that religions could not be interfered with by the state, but such that religions could invade the state and exert influence there. It’s not so much a Freedom from Religion as it is a Freedom for Religious People. Goddamn puritans.

[–] spaceghoti@lemmy.one 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, that's what Barton wants people to believe. But when you read what the Founders had to say about church and state, they made it pretty clear they wanted to keep religion out of the state as well.

“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”

- John Adams

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding....

- Thomas Jefferson

meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammeden, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

- Thomas Jefferson again

If they are good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa or Europe; they may be Mahometans, Jews, Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists...

- George Washington, to Tench Tilghman, March 24, 1784, when asked what type of workman to get for Mount Vernon, from The Washington papers, edited by Saul Padover

...I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.

- George Washington, to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, May, 1789 from The Washington papers, edited by Saul Padover]

For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.

- George Washington to the Hebrew Congregation in Newport, Rhode Island | Wednesday, August 18, 1790

While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious not to violate the rights of conscience in others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of the hearts of men, and to him only in this case they are answerable.

- George Washington letter to Benedict Arnold | Thursday, September 14, 1775

More on what the Founders thought.

[–] Instigate@aussie.zone 1 points 1 year ago

Surely if they wanted to keep religion out of the state, they’d have written that into the Constitution or one of the early amendments, right? It’s not like they didn’t have the power to do so. They specifically chose not to, knowing that their government could easily invaded by religion, which indicates at least that they were ambivalent to the idea.

Those quotes are all well and good but what matters is the letter of the law. These men wrote the law, and the law doesn’t forbid religion in the state. It doesn’t matter what a politician says, but what they do - and what they did allowed for what we’re seeing today. It was obviously on their minds as they spoke about the idea of wanting to keep church and state separate, but then they did nothing at all to safeguard the state - the only protections are for the churches.

They were either in favour of the church being able to control the state, or wilfully ignorant that this could happen unless it was forbidden in the Constitution. If they wanted to stop this from happening, they would have.