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submitted 8 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Former President Barack Obama said a way forward for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is only possible if people acknowledge the “complexity” of the situation.

“If there’s any chance of us being able to act constructively to do something, it will require an admission of complexity and maintaining what on the surface may seem contradictory ideas that what Hamas did was horrific, and there’s no justification for it. And … that the occupation and what’s happening to Palestinians is unbearable,” Obama said in an interview on the podcast “Pod Save America.”

The former president’s comments come as the Israeli military focuses its offensive against Hamas in Gaza City and northern parts of the enclave.

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[-] Marsupial@quokk.au 121 points 8 months ago

So remove the leaders of both sides.

[-] donuts@kbin.social 46 points 8 months ago

Unfortunately Hamas hasn't held a single election since they were elected in 2006, and Netanyahu is looking similarly autocratic. The recent escalation is only going to make both sides more antagonistic.

In other words, this shit ain't going away any time soon.

[-] parascent@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Why should hamas keep down their arms when they see what is happening in disarmed Westbank?

[-] roboticide@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago
  1. Unarmed protest is always an option. It's a harder option, but it is an option.

  2. Hamas could keep their weapons, and target actual military targets in Gaza.

  3. Israel already withdrew from Gaza in '06, but Hamas is happy to launch rockets at civilian targets in Israel.

  4. Hamas could launch rockets at civilian targets in Israel from non-civilian locations in Gaza, instead of using schools and hospitals.

Hamas has consistently picked the most hostile options because Hamas doesn't just want a free Palestine, Hamas wants the destruction of Israel and rejects any territory existing as an Israeli state. Gaza isn't even fully isolated by Israel, but Egypt wants nothing to do with Hamas either.

I'm not even saying armed resistance is wrong, but what Hamas does is. And yes, Israel's government is also just as wrong, if not more so.

[-] parascent@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

You must be new to the world then.

  1. Unarmed protests are not an option as evidenced by the great march of return in Gaza. Israhell knee capped Palestinians with bullets.
  2. How exactly? Are you providing them with precision weapons. Also Hezbolla is exclusively targeting military and Israhell killed Lebanese civilians. Hezbolla responded by promising to kill 1 Israeli civilian for every Lebanese civilian killed by Israel. Also you might not be familiar with Dahiya doctrine of Israel.
  3. Gaza does not exist in a vacuum. Gaza and hamas can see the occupation and annexation of the Westbank. They can see the desecration of Aqsa.
  4. You are pretending everything Israel says is true even though you know they lie all the time.

Why shouldn't Hamas continue armed resistance? Westbank is the living example of what happens when resistance dwindles. Israhell takes all. Simple.

[-] jimbo@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Do you think an armed Westbank would fair any better?

[-] parascent@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

Yes. If Arabs had helped they'd have their own state by now. But the monarchies helped suppress and kill Palestinian state hood because they are afraid of what the Levant Arab mindset represents. They are afraid of both islamist and secular Levant arab politics because they represent unity beyond borders.

[-] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one 10 points 8 months ago

Exactly. I've been recently thinking that maybe Israel and Palestine become a new country run by the world. It becomes a neutral globally enforced and patrolled market or exchange. Almost like a U.N. country, but somehow better because the U.N seems like a fucking joke. I'm not sure exactly what I mean here, but essentially, the world removes the two and force them to be one.

Even though it is complex, there are obvious crimes, let alone war crimes happening there. Looking at you IDF with your repeated bombing of civilians and the wounded.

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 49 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I think you've just created a tinderbox of like...well...biblical proportions.

[-] treefrog@lemm.ee 15 points 8 months ago

Umm... it's already burning.

Just saying.

[-] Uvine_Umbra@partizle.com 20 points 8 months ago

The UN is a pull organization. It has to request forces & money for operations. No nation or nation collective in their right mind would want to shell out the billions required to basically occupy the region, even with Jerusalem.

[-] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one -4 points 8 months ago

Make it a global trade hub. All nations will have an interest. With global trade comes investment, and the next thing you know, this small patch of the earth is the most valuable piece on it.

[-] Uvine_Umbra@partizle.com 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

So make a place a global trade hub in theory can be as simple as saying it is so and watching every country trade there, only in one's imagination.

So now the region is going to be made into a great Singapore for the Mediterranean using billions of dollars of tax money from nations including Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, etc?

That's not a global trade hub. That's a globally subsidized tax haven. Whose long-term stability Congress from the whim of nations like the USA, China, Russia, the EU, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc...

With that, it would be infinitely easier and more attractive for any nearby nation to create a special economic area to handle regional trade & take the jobs, and the best part? This would be funded by the respective nation itself.

[-] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one 0 points 8 months ago

The way you describe it is a tax haven. Make it not so.

[-] Vespair@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago

This is almost an appealing idea in a parallel universe where religion doesn't exist, but unfortunately that's not the one we live in. This conflict is one that extends to nearly every avenue, but at it's core, it's a religious one. Unless we're ready as a global community to finally denounce religion and call the practice of it a silly and fruitless endeavor, which to be clear, we aren't, then we're never going to get anywhere pretending we can ignore the religious aspect of it. And that includes your utopian suggestion, which aside from all of its other very real problems would also likely enrage an enormous religious segment of the world who would see some of their holiest lands reduced to mere merchants dens. Even if you perhaps try to protect the religious sites, now you're effectively enforcing a concept of religious sanctity on the global community, which is no less likely to offend.

Your idea is well-intended and nice to think about, but unfortunately unrealistic for many reasons, starting on the ground floor with problem of religion.

[-] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one -1 points 8 months ago

Yes, that's why we don't stop trying. I might not make a difference, but maybe the next generation or the next after that. The point is I'm not going to stop trying. There is no answer that everyone is going to like, but there is an answer that will help everyone. I mean Israel IS man made.

[-] bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works 5 points 8 months ago

Exactly, change the leader or change the leader

[-] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one 2 points 7 months ago

It's a never-ending organic entity. You have to keep at it The problem with the insanity analogy is that it takes a billion times to do something sometimes before even beginning to see the start of a change.

[-] idunnololz@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Take away their toys and put them in time oot.

[-] PetDinosaurs@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Ah. Yes. That's the easy way to do it.

[-] samokosik@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 8 months ago

And make sure they are both secular.

this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
782 points (94.6% liked)

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