292
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
292 points (94.0% liked)
World News
37340 readers
2503 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
What choice did they realistically have? Be strangled out slowly by Israel while watching settlers pushing borders slowly but surely? No one has given a shit about Palestine since before ISIS / Syria, by my recollection.
That said it's also, of course, completely inexcusable to kill and take hostage civilians no matter the underlying justifications they might have.
This is just a shit storm about 80 years in the making. And there just isn't a solution in sight.
Victim blaming as it is. The choice was not to murder people.
The choices were: 1. die slowly while no one is looking 2. make it quicker and put it on full display, hoping that something might happen
What would you choose? The West bank shows that peace isn't and was never an option.
As I said in an earlier comment:
"Hamas is not Palestinians. Hamas steals aid meant for Palestinians. They embed themselves in civilian areas. They take investments that other groups make to improve Palestinian lives, and dismantle them to use for weaponry. They stockpile food, medicine, and water and don't share it with civilians when Israel cuts off those crucial resources.
The leaders of Hamas are rich fucks living cushy lives in the UAE and could not care less about Palestinians. This isn't some freedom fighter group that's out of options. It's terrorists who purposely co-opt language from peaceful protestors to make them sound like extremists."
Don't confuse Palestinians with Hamas, they deserve so much better than that.
WOW, Hamas sure don't sound like lovely folk. It's very sad that they're the only choice Palestinians have. of course, ignoring the option to make peace with the bulldozer currently wrecking your home, and the soldiers about to burn your field and abduct members of your family to be tortured in their prisons.
I don't think I'd word it that way. Hamas is hardly looking out for them, and we both know Israel isn't at all. There are no good guys in this war. They're all using the Palestinians in some way or another -- or bombing them. The only good people are the civilians caught between all the warring parties.
I understand what you're saying though. Hamas is no freedom fighter group and doesn't deserve any defense you'd give one -- but I can understand why a Palestinian would throw in their lot with them. Like you said, they don't have much of a choice. The other alternative is just not picking any side at all, and trying to just survive.
I suspect however that Hamas doesn't enjoy as much Palestinian support as they'd like. They've had to crack down on people protesting against them in the somewhat recent past. I think if Hamas were eliminated, we'd see a lot of them quite happy, and hopeful about the future.
We can hope, at least. The Palestinians need to be free to govern themselves, without being under Hamas' rule nor being bombed constantly by Israel.
Yes, we do agree on all of that, but knowing that there are no good guys solves nothing. As you've said Hamas is at least not trying to kill and displace Palestinians, out of the two choices Palestinians would absolutely not prefer to be at the mercy of the occupation government.
Palestinians are powerless, and at this point are just cycling through everything around them and blaming it. First blaming the occupation, then the Fatah government for not taking action, and now Hamas for taking action. Everything around them is using them at best, or trying to get rid of them.
No matter what they change their situation will stay the same, because while they are (or were) able to change who governs them, the occupation is a constant thing. If it's not wrecking their houses and murdering them, it's blockading them and making any development impossible.
Now what you're suggesting is for the occupation government to take Hamas' place, which will make the situation better somehow. This only makes sense if you think that the situation in the West bank is better than the situation in Gaza.
That's not likely, but yeah, we can at least hope.
Not at all. I want the UN to govern the area as a protectorate while the pillars of government are built, and a global coalition serving as the military. Discourage Israel from bombing unless they want to kill soldiers from all nations, and build up the functions necessary for a healthy democracy.
Even if this was to happen, do you think killing soldiers of every nation would discourage them? That's just another disgusting act to add to the pile.
The UN would absolutely not be able to protect Palestine from sabotage and sanctions when the US is on the sabotaging side.
I think willfully killing Western soldiers would very quickly end Western support for them. They may not feel discouraged from killing them, but they are as hell would be discouraged by the consequences.
You're right about the second point though. The UN wouldn't be able to do a ton, as much as I'd like it to be otherwise.
Ok so violence IS justified after all
No, of course. That's why the IDF is currently having a tea party, even after Hamas attacked them, they knew that violence is never the answer, and everyone lived happily ever after. Now close those sleepy eyes and wander to the land of dreams.
I hope you enjoy whatever time you have left
I hope that you don't turn the other cheek when punched, so you can enjoy yours too :)
Do you tell the Ukrainians this too when they resist the Russians occupying their land?
Oh no only white people are allowed to fight colonists, brown people should just lay down in a ditch and die right?
Did you really just label the Israeli Jewish population as 'white people'?
Over half of them are of mizrahi ancestry you fuckwit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews_in_Israel