this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023

292 points (94.0% liked)

World News

39023 readers

2502 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

quinten@lemmy.world

NewsAutoMod@lemmy.world

jordanlund@lemmy.world

Tenthrow@lemmy.world

little_cow@lemmy.world

lemmyAtom@lemmy.world

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world

292

Hamas leaders say they have no regrets after the October 7 attack and the goal was to 'overthrow' the status quo (www.businessinsider.com)

submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

158 comments fedilink hide all child comments

More than 10,000 Palestinians have been killed in the month since Hamas' terrorist attacks inside southern Israel, the group's health ministry in Gaza says.

But Hamas officials say the mounting death toll, believed to include thousands of children, has not caused the group to regret its actions in southern Israel, which Israeli officials said killed 1,400 people.

In fact, Hamas leaders say that their goal was to trigger this very response and that they're still hoping for a bigger war. It's all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world's attention to the Palestinian cause.

Hamas, these officials say, is more interested in the destruction of Israel than what it sees as the temporary hardships faced by Palestinians under Israeli bombardment.

"What could change the equation was a great act, and without a doubt, it was known that the reaction to this great act would be big," Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the group's governing politburo, told The New York Times in an interview.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In fact, Hamas leaders say that their goal was to trigger this very response and that they're still hoping for a bigger war. It's all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world's attention to the Palestinian cause.

"This was our plan all along!" Lol? At this rate there won't even be a Palestine to pay attention to...

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago (4 children)

“This was our plan all along!” Lol? At this rate there won’t even be a Palestine to pay attention to…

Try and remember where things were prior to the attack. There was a legitimate movement happening where people were starting to recognize the apartheid state that Israel had set up. The conversation was materially shifting to focus on the abuses of the Israeli government. Things were happening that seemed like the whole thing could come to resolution without Hamas being involved. The terrorist attack was as much about maintaining the status quo of conflict as anything else. Hamas and Netanyahu both had their power waning as a function of the failed strategies both have been employing for decades. The attack reset the clock for both of them. It justifies Israels decades of shitty policies that have objectively compounded the situation and made it much worse, along with justifying Hamas position about this being a war for survival. Both hawk factions benefit from this, no people benefit from this.

[–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I never thought about it like this. I never realized that this was Hamas’ motivation. But yeah, it makes perfect sense when you look at it from this point of view.

I guess I thought that Hamas…cared(?)…more about the Palestinians, so when people would say that this is the reaction they wanted from Israel, I was confused. But yeah, okay. Thanks for that.

[–] Wahots@pawb.social 5 points 1 year ago

If it's not a democracy, the leaders don't have to care about what the normal people think. They will never have to risk getting voted out. All that matters is power and terror. Keeping people scared. Using violence to keep people's heads down. Execute your enemies and allies perceived as weak. Imprison them if killing them would make them a martyr, such as Navalny.

China uses a much more refined version of this to keep people in legitimate concentration camps with forced sterilization. But they have such a grip on who gets in/out, and control so much trade, that even for people who do know of the Uyghurs can't do anything aside from toothless statements about them. But most people don't know. Or simply don't care what happens in an authoritarian country half a world away.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

When someone gives you knowledge— Listen. Thank You.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Palestine isn’t the point. Destroying Israel was the point. And the more this goes on, the more likely other countries (such as Saudi Arabia) are likely to step in and go after Israel. Which could result in the destruction of Israel.

That’s my understanding of what this article was about anyway.

[–] RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 year ago

As long as Israel has Uncle Sam parked off the coast there is no destruction of Israel happening anytime soon. The us could decimate every nation surrounding Israel and then some, probably with just the assets we have in the region alone. They know that so there won’t be any mass attack on Israel. Hamas planned to trigger Israel into a genocide and then have all of the terrorist groups/ Muslim nations launch an attack on Israel. They want a massive world war. But that’s just not happening with where global politics are at. The us is going to provide the protection for Israel to do essentially what they want. We are too chicken shit to pressure Israel into stopping this genocide so we are stuck.

I expect to see terrorist groups in all of the surrounding nations continue to try to trigger a global conflict by attacking Israel and US assets in the region, but its just unlikely to go anywhere.

So Hamas poked the hornets nest, gets nothing but thousands of their people dead. Israel is revealed to be the hard right genocidal dictatorship we have all known it to be. The US continues to sink millions into foreign wars. Round and round we go.

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

And the more this goes on, the more likely other countries (such as Saudi Arabia) are likely to step in and go after Israel.

No way would SA sacrifice their sweetheart deal with the US to do this. They are dependent on the US for security. This is about proxy sectarian politics between moral enemies Saudi Arabia (Sunni, ally of the US who is Israel's pal,) and Iran (Shia, backers of Hamas and Hezbollah.)

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 8 points 1 year ago

Not to mention, SA probably isn't stupid enough to attack with intent to destroy (relevant because a state being under credible threat to survival is the kind of scenario usually given for that state actually using weapons of mass destruction) an almost certainly nuclear armed state, especially one that is close enough by to have no time for warnings or interception, and especially when they have no equivalent weapons of their own as deterrent.

load more comments (7 replies)

[–] shatal@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Unfortunately it seems that they will get what they want.

Israel has been bombarded with nearly 10,000 rockets, ballistic missiles and bomb carrying drones over the last month - from Gaza to the centre, Lebanon to the north and Yemen and Iran to the south. In addition there are almost daily terror attacks coming from the west bank.

There are civilian fatalities every day there. A school was recently hit and destroyed from a ballistic missile hit. Thankfully the city that was hit moved to online studies due to the threats so it was empty.

The only reason we don't see a death toll of thousands of Israelis is due to extreme defence measurements including the evacuation of more than 250,000 Israelis from the north and centre.

The whole situation is just escalating by the day and the massive attacks are fuelling Israelis rage.

Both the Houthis and Hezbollah hinted a massive attack tomorrow. Another serious hit to Israeli civilians will send this whole thing over a cliff.

[–] QuarterSwede@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

The IDF rarely shows mercy. I don’t really understand what the surrounding countries are thinking. If they want to escalate things to remove the status quo they certainly are. But at what cost?

[–] Crashumbc@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Both sides are religious fanatics. You can't reason with a fanatic

load more comments (7 replies)

[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

I think they're trying to get Israel to act in such a way that they finally lose the American support. Israel currently gets to do whatever it wants without consequence because the US will seemingly back them unconditionally. Also, many countries, people, and organizations are afraid to criticize Israel because they get called anti-Semitic. But I think that only works while Israel can manage to convince people it's the "good one".

load more comments (6 replies)

[–] greenmarty@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Those radicalized will be happy to die in name of their God. If civilian dies depending on their religion they will be rewarded by their God or infidels will be punished. So in their mind as long as many people die its a win.

load more comments (3 replies)

load more comments (9 replies)

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Hamas spokesperson Taher El-Nounou told the Times that, rather than end with a cease-fire now, his group would prefer for the conflict to expand.
"I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders and that the Arab world will stand with us," he told the Times.

I suspect Hamas's attack will cost Palestine many lives and more land but will not lead to a greater war. Every other time their Arab neighbors went to war for the Palestinians it did not work out well for them; Iran is likely to continue to put pressure on Israel via Hezbollah rather than blow their load with an all-out attack and lose their regional bargaining chip.

It's all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world's attention to the Palestinian cause.

This may have stalled recognition by Saudi Arabia but things will normalize again once Gaza is pacified. Israel and the US are better international allies to have than Palestine.

[–] JoeHill@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Every other time their Arab neighbors went to war for the Palestinians it did not work out well for them

Not just didn’t work out for them. The PLO turned around and tried to overthrow two of the neighboring countries: Jordan in 1970 and Lebanon in the 80s.

[–] bioemerl@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Turns out a mass terror attack on a nation rarely benefits the attacker or the nation that was attacked, normally with the attacker coming away worse than their better armed opponent.

It's basically 9/11 all over again. But on a smaller scale and with a Middle Eastern nation far happier to be brutal on the targeted side.

Saudi is probably more annoyed at Hamas for getting in the way of their plans than they are considering cutting off their deals.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] ThatFembyWho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Curious to see how their apologists will spin that.

Every dead Palestinian Muslim is a martyr to Hamas, no? Every life just another tool to accomplish their religious-political objective, which afaik is solely the destruction of Israel. Or ask yourself why they intentionally link their paramilitary network to schools, hospitals, private residences and such.

Say whatever you want about Israel and Zionism, Hamas are NOT "the good guys" here and never have been. Their actions are indefensible. No amount of whataboutism changes that...

[–] UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

I've yet to see anyone defend Hamas's actions, even from comments that have been reported by others. What people do say is that Hamas's actions does not excuse Israel's military committing the atrocities that they are doing. Sounds like you are making up an antagonistic group that aren't really seen on Lemmy.

load more comments (7 replies)

[–] ItsMeSpez@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately it is entirely possible for there to be no good guys at all. Take a step back and realize that you can choose not to take a side in every issue.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] avater@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

yeah Hamas bad. always

[–] SirToxicAvenger@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

lolwat?! they had no chance to do that. what's going on now is basically directly their fault. wow.

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The status quo of actually having people in Gaza? Because at this rate, there won't be anyone left.

load more comments (3 replies)

load more comments