this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
1026 points (88.5% liked)
Fuck Cars
9817 readers
75 users here now
This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.
This community exists for the following reasons:
- to raise awareness around the dangers, inefficiencies and injustice that can come from car dependence.
- to allow a place to discuss and promote more healthy transport methods and ways of living.
You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.
Rules
-
Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn't choose car-centric life out of free will.
-
No bigotry or hate. Racism, transphobia, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, chauvinism, fat-shaming, body-shaming, stigmatization of people experiencing homeless or substance users, etc. are not tolerated. Don't use slurs. You can laugh at someone's fragile masculinity without associating it with their body. The correlation between car-culture and body weight is not an excuse for fat-shaming.
-
Stay on-topic. Submissions should be on-topic to the externalities of car culture in urban development and communities globally. Posting about alternatives to cars and car culture is fine. Don't post literal car fucking.
-
No traffic violence. Do not post depictions of traffic violence. NSFW or NSFL posts are not allowed. Gawking at crashes is not allowed. Be respectful to people who are a victim of traffic violence or otherwise traumatized by it. News articles about crashes and statistics about traffic violence are allowed. Glorifying traffic violence will get you banned.
-
No reposts. Before sharing, check if your post isn't a repost. Reposts that add something new are fine. Reposts that are sharing content from somewhere else are fine too.
-
No misinformation. Masks and vaccines save lives during a pandemic, climate change is real and anthropogenic - and denial of these and other established facts will get you banned. False or highly speculative titles will get your post deleted.
-
No harassment. Posts that (may) cause harassment, dogpiling or brigading, intentionally or not, will be removed. Please do not post screenshots containing uncensored usernames. Actual harassment, dogpiling or brigading is a bannable offence.
Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This is pure oil company propaganda. I hate cars with a passion and want a car free society. We will get there but it will take time. But We need to get rid of gas NOW.
Anyone who spews this kind of filth is literally the enemy.
I really do not think so. Oil propaganda would support cars rather than be against it. I'm quite sure this is directed at the people who think EVs are a full solution.
This comic ISN'T anti-car, it's anti-electric car.
Absolutely oil propaganda.
I already discussed this exact thing once before on Lemmy, I'll link to my old comment chain https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/3441189
And some other of the artist's comics https://twitter.com/GregVann/status/1085788036573540354
But in short, no, in context this artist is anti-car.
Why, then, does the picture with all the problems depict a gas car, and why is "tailpipe emissions" listed as one of the problems?
Also, usually corporate propaganda is done by less well-established cartoonists that don't have reputations to ruin.
Because people like you eat it up.
It's criticising cars in general, one if it's arguments is that EV's don't solve some lf the main problems of cars (which gas cars also have)
Is your reading comprehension in the shitter?
Mate, the whole comic shits on cars as a whole, each and every part that electrics and gas both share. The only thing making electric better being tailpipe emissions and nothing else.
The messaging here is clear, eliminate the car as a concept for transport and stop accepting lukewarm solutions as anything but unacceptable.
EVs are the only solution to getting ourselves out of this mess. We can't ban all cars in the next few years like we can with all gasoline cars. Building proper public transport takes time, especially when it's been sabotaged to such a point. We need to transit to a carless society through ev or it's literally over.
Propaganda is a slimy business and their current strat is bash EVs and bring up nihilism. Regardless of your intentions, you are being their mouthpiece by posting this.
I think we live in very different parts of the world. Where I'm from, it is quite self-evident that we have to transition to EVs, and most people in fact already do. However a lot of people seem to forget that EVs only solve part of the problem and that we have to think further, so from my perspective this comic can basically only be used for good.
But I do get that this could be used by reactionaries to push back against clean energy in places where such sentiments are common. However, I don't think that's a particularly big problem on the Fediverse.
That's all true, maybe I'm overthinking it. I like his other work, the punch line just seemed prominently anti ev on this one and I think I'm developing a hair trigger for it. Most are a bit more reticent in my community and I've seen all kinds of arguments against EVs, some being they are just as bad for the environment so why bother.
I do agree it might lead to complacency, especially since most countries seem quite unwilling to tackle any kind of issues related to vehicles.
The only solution EVs provide is a pathway for automotive companies to continue to exist. They solve nothing and their existence continues to enable suburban sprawl, lack of public transportation, and the alienation of a car-centric society. You are trash for supporting EVs and you aren't interested in a better world, one without cars.
EVs have about half the lifecycle emissions as a gas car, given today's electric grid. Which is better, but not all that much better.
However: 80% of the US lives in metropolitan and micropolitan areas. 20% of the US is rural. You can build better public transit in cities and small towns, and stop doubling down on building shitty-ass suburban stroads and sprawl. But Farmer Joe is never going to bike 20 miles to the nearest Dollar General. It's just not practical, and neither is putting a bus stop in front of every farm.
A car-lite world where Farmer Joe drives an EV to a farmer's market that 95% of people walked, biked or took a bus to seems way better than either the status quo or a car-free world.
What did "farmer joe" do before cars I wonder? Plus it's 100% fine if "farmer joe" still uses fossil fuels for his tractor and to drive into town. That isn't a problem that is solved by EVs. that isn't a problem that needs to be solved, and that absolutely isn't the reason you are bringing up EVs at all.
Before cars, he'd probably have gone into town much less, and would probably have gone by horse.
Why?
It must be nice living in a little bubble where you don't have to think about social and political realities.
Ironic talking about me living in a bubble when you are literally in a bubble every time you drive. Hope you are ready when the "social and political realities" make a car-centric society untenable.
Why would Big Oil support cars that don't use its product?
Those people don't exist. These kinds of arguments are only made to cause disagreement. It's like car-racism.
Did you really just say car racism lmao.
No, I said it's LIKE racism, meaning that it has similarities.
Literally NOBODY thinks that EVs are a "full solution" to environmental damage or climate change or whatever the whataboutism is about this week.
It's only beneficial to put this argument forward for two groups: Car manufacturers and oil producters.
Then why is my neighbour down the street spewing this shit on Facebook daily? He is not a car manufacturer or oil producter.
No, it's because he has been lead to believe that the smug EV people are going to take his vehicle away. He has bought the lie and now he's spreading the arguments that will fragment car owners so that nothing will ever change.
The entire purpose is to split car users and preserve the status quo.
This is the fuck cars community. We should hate all cars equally. When I see other posters here repeating the lies from the car and oil industries, I have to point it out.
My brother in Christ, you literally have no idea how much stuff is made out of petrochemicals, do you? Try asphalt, industrial solvents, cosmetics, any real lubricant, fertilizers, pesticides, textiles, circuitry, detergents, insulation, PVC, paint, adhesives, roofing material, synthetic rubbers, as well as a ton of pharmaceutical products and food additives. And that's not even an exhaustive list. Gasoline is a big part of the petrochemical industry, but it's not the totality of it.
I do know how much we use petrochemicals. Gasoline is not a direct synonym for petrochemicals, it's definition is fuel for combustion engines. None of the products you mentioned are made out of gasoline.
I'm curious why you think ocean microplastics can stick around for a few more decades or centuries
I was gonna argue that rolling resistance doesn't have a large impact on efficiency, but apparently I was wrong
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_resistance
The funny thing is, electric cars help with the tire/brake dust and mined materials issue. Regenerative braking reduces the wear on brakes, and electric motors provide smoother power delivery, which reduces tire wear. As for the mined materials, electric cars generally take more material to make, but they are also easier to recycle, and the batteries themselves are able to be recycled in to even better batteries that they were when brand new.
I don't feel like grabbing the source right now but EVs give off higher amounts of tire dust due to their heavier weight.
That's fine, but electric cars are only moving the gas right now.
Anyone who thinks cars are a solution to anything is my enemy.