this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2023
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Another player who was at the table during the incident sent me this meme after the problem player in question (they had a history) left the group chat.

Felt like sharing it here because I'm sure more people should keep this kind of thing in mind.

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[–] NAXLAB@lemmy.world 108 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

I'll echo the words of my friend, who is a permanent wheelchair user:

"Yes, I identify with my disability as part of who I am, but I would still take a cure without hesitation"

Yes, people with disabilities identify with their disability, so even in a fantasy setting I can see how their disability would be part of their character.

But every disabled person I know would figuratively leap at the opportunity to reverse their disability with magic. It is also basically impossible to use a wheelchair while holding something like a wand or a staff or a fireball in one hand, so if there's enough magic around to push a wheelchair, there's probably enough to make your legs work. That's why somebody has a good reason not to expect a wheelchair in a fantasy world. I can see how somebody who doesn't really know any disabled people would panic at the idea of a wheelchair being part of the narrative or something like that, and I can sympathize with it.

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 64 points 1 year ago

It's a bit of a double-edged sword. Representation is great, because it makes us feel less like a shame to be ignored or scorned - but also, being disabled fucking sucks, kind of by definition, and it's hard to take seriously people who peddle the 'handicapable' stuff. I don't need any toxic positivity in my life, thanks.

[–] neshura@bookwormstory.social 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The only people I have ever seen claim that disabilities aren't so bad and you can live completely normal etc. are people with no disabilities at all. I'm not disabled, my eyesight is just shit and I don't know what I'd be willing to do to get normal eyesight. Just to get rid of a pair of glasses. I can't imagine the lengths someone actually disabled would go to in order to get a cure.

[–] LennethAegis@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"I’m not disabled, my eyesight is just shit and I don’t know what I’d be willing to do to get normal eyesight. Just to get rid of a pair of glasses."

I apparently would pay someone a large sum of money to zap my eyes with a laser using a giant machine with only the vague promise that after the laser burns heal, your vision will be better.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

laser burns

Technically not burning. Even though (and nobody warned me of this before my procedure) it sure af smells like something is burning while the laser shines down on your exposed retina, that's actually the smell of vaporised cornea.

TL;DR: laser vaporisation, not laser burning. Much more metal.

[–] LennethAegis@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

That somehow sounds even worse.

[–] neshura@bookwormstory.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Valid point, let's work with it

Nitpick: "large sum of money" - at least here laser treatment is pretty cheap (less than 1k for both eyes)

1: My eyesight is too bad for laser treatment, by the time my eyesight would be corrected there would be nothing left of my cornea and likely retina as well.

1.5: I still have options available to me that, as you point out, just involve throwing more money at the problem

2: me having that option is beside the point. The point is that even just a minor nuisance like glasses is enough to seriously fuck with someone's (perceived) quality of life, never mind something that actually severely impacts your daily life.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

at least here laser treatment is pretty cheap (less than 1k for both eyes)

I'm not sure where you are, but that's exceptionally cheap. I got it done in Vietnam for about $2k for both eyes. Here in Australia it would be more like $4k per eye.

[–] neshura@bookwormstory.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I suppose the health insurance covers a lot of it, but given the quotes my mother and I (well mine was more a "would cost this much but no can do with your eyes kiddo") got respectively plus what the health insurance likely paid/pays the "normal" price would still be ~1.5k-2k for both eyes.

[–] SuiXi3D@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I’m in the same boat, and I’ve learned that the answer is I don’t want the smell of burning eyeball lingering in my mind no matter how well I see afterwards.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In our world we do have the magic to push a wheelchair around, and it's not even hard to do this. Tinkerers can cast the spell of self-propelling wheelchair in their garages.

But magicing someone's legs to work is still a far way off.

(Remember, when magic is well explained and documented, and people get used to it, they tend to call it technology.)

[–] Zorque@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

(Remember, when magic is well explained and documented, and people get used to it, they tend to call it technology.)

Depends on the kind of magic. Magic machines that do wondrous things? Sure, technology. Magic where you manipulate energies with the power of thought and will alone? I'ma stick with magic, thank you.

"oh that's just telekinesis"

"cool nickname, still magic!"

[–] NAXLAB@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If by "not even hard" you mean "costs as much as a car", then sure. My friend also let me know just how costly power chairs are.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

It's expensive for sure, but that's mostly because powered chairs are made by medical companies and in comparatively low numbers.

A mobility scooter has almost all components a powered chair has, and these can be had for as little as €1000.

The technology behind a powered chair isn't hard.

And even if we use the high price of a power scooter: How much does it cost to make a paraplegic person walk?

[–] Signtist@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Not even hard" and "costs as much as a car" aren't mutually exclusive when it comes to the field of medicine, especially in the US. Many drugs cost pharmaceutical companies pennies to manufacture, but they still sell them for hundreds per pill simply because they can. Medical equipment often employs similar price gouging for no other reason than to profit as much as possible from people who have little choice but to pay.

[–] NAXLAB@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

My friend talked a lot about the forces at work. Not all of it was simple capitalism. Disabled people are notoriously hard to design for because each disabled person is different and has different needs. This kind of business is not scalable and disabled people are already a minority. Even proper hand wheelchairs are fucking expensive cuz only a couple companies make them.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

That does make sense. But still, making a powered chair is not at all technologically difficult. You need the chair, two motors and an input system that works for the user.

Sure, if there's a lot of bespoke parts and manual labour, coupled with basically no economy of scale, it's going to be expensive. But it's not difficult.

[–] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cochlear implants are frowned upon by some in the Deaf community.

[–] NAXLAB@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I went to a NTID school, the community there does not consider themselves to have a "disability" literally. To them, it's just a language.

[–] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

There's a lot of cultural stuff there that I'm certainly not qualified to comment on.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To them, it's just a language.

What is? Being deaf isn't a language. Sign language absolutely is a language, or to be more accurate, it's a whole class of languages, because ASL is as different from AusLan or BSL as English is from Spanish or German.

And like any language, it's more than just a set of definitions and rules of grammar. It carries culture.

[–] NAXLAB@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah exactly, for them it's about the culture, in which language is a huge factor.

[–] voidMainVoid@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It is also basically impossible to use a wheelchair while holding something in one hand, so if there's enough magic around to push a wheelchair, there's probably enough to make your legs work.

First, off the top, you can stop your wheelchair, use your hand(s) for something else, and then start moving again.

Second, you're making a lot of assumptions about the magic system. Every magic system has limitations. What if healing is a clerical spell, not a magic spell, and there are no clerics around? Maybe the nearest cleric who can heal is many miles away, perhaps over dangerous terrain inhabited by bandits, monsters, etc. Maybe the spell requires some very specific and difficult-to-obtain materials. Or maybe the spell is very high-level, requiring many years to learn, so clerics or mages charge a very high fee for this service. Any of these, or a combination, could be a reason why a disabled person (or a family member on their behalf) is questing.

Maybe the knowledge of the healing magic was held by some ancient civilization and it was lost when that civilization fell, but the disabled character has found a clue to where some ancient ruins could be unearthed where the secret might be found.

Or maybe the GM just says "Yeah, spells can't do that in this setting."