this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
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I swapped the original article at the request of a mod to from a source deemed more reliable, but to avoid confusion when reading the comment section prior to this edit, here is the link to the original article. I chose the Relief Web source listed by some who commented. Cheers!

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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 42 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/un-human-rights-office-opt-unlawful-killings-gaza-city

The actual report from the United Nations.

It just says allegations, and it calls on the IDF to investigate.

[–] machinin@lemmy.world 41 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Of course the IDF should investigate itself. I'm sure they are completely unbiased.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Clearly you're right. But the UN report did not say what the article said it said. Which means it's biased reporting.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The article prefaces every item with the word "alleged" or "alleges", just like the report. How is this biased?

[–] machinin@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

At this point, with the US influence on UN reporting bodies, I believe independent reporters over UN reports concerning the atrocities committed upon the Palestinian people.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And that's totally fair. And probably correct. But this article says the UN says something that the UN is not saying. Which means it's a bad article

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It doesn't though. Only the headline does that. That's not good, but the article itself is not bad because of its headline.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com -3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If the majority of people only read the title, poisoning the title is effectively making the article bad. Even if the article itself is sufficiently conditioned.

So I will stand by my conviction that this is a bad article for this community.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So I will stand by my conviction that this is a bad article for this community.

Hmmmm, I find it strange that you are being pedantic and insistent on the title spoiling the whole article. The article does an excellent job being factual, linking to all its claims, and backing them all up.

I read the title again and again and I believe this is just a disagreement on the meaning of "report", between you vs. the rest of the readers who had no issue with it + the authors themselves.

Now I'm starting to think using the word "report" was actually more accurate... they literally mean that there was a report from the UN.

On Wednesday, the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) published a report

This report and a similar allegation by the Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor imply that Israel has moved from murdering civilians through bombing to mass executions.

Reading the article again helped me realize this. Maybe it can help you too?

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think they'd just rather it said "UN reports Israeli forces are alleged to be carrying out mass summary executions in Gaza."

Still doesn't make the IDF look good, but it's a fair point.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Cool, no problemo. Can we now go back to discussing the killings?

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What? The article says exactly what the report says. 'Allege' is legal shorthand for 'we say this is true'

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The title does not say allege. The title says something very different

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, the title says precisely the same thing. To 'report' something to be true is the same as to 'allege' something to be true.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

To report something is to make a finding. You may have an interesting definition of report, but the common usage is about findings. The UN did not make a finding that Israel committed a mass killing. The implication of the title is the UN made a determination which it did not do.

The UN is calling on Israel to investigate an allegation but it did not make a finding.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/report

  • To return or present as the result of an examination or consideration of any matter officially referred.
[–] snek@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I feel like this is quite pedantic.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

considering you and I have both agreed the title is misleading. I'm not being pedantic. You understood what I meant, and you have acknowledged it.

So when the question of what the title actually means came up, it seems like a worthwhile discussion

[–] snek@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Actually I read it again and changed my mind... wrote you another comment, do check it.

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think we've moved out of 'not understanding' and into the realm of 'you don't want to believe and you also don't want others to' territory.

Which would be fine if you were more honest about it. Have a nice day.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 11 months ago

Fighting over dictionary definitions is the least interesting type of discussion. That's why we have dictionaries

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 31 points 11 months ago

We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

When OHCHR drops a report like this it means they consider the allegations to be credible. It's the same level as the news calling someone an alleged murderer after the guy killed someone on national TV. The report in this case is based on witness statements and an investigation done by a human rights NGO out of Europe.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Thanks for sharing