this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2023
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China's EV revolution showcases the power that state actors have when an industry is a matter of national security.
China has marginal domestic O&G reserves, so moving off of O&G is incredibly important for Chinese interests.
And since the oil and gas companies in China are nationalized, they will follow along with the government's plans rather than obstruct or bribe their way as with for-profit private oil and gas companies in many western countries.
Woah hold the phone, you're telling me there's a way to build society OTHER than by explicitly rewarding greed and exploitation‽
It is a similar story in Saudi Arabia and many Arab countries. The oil and gas is nationally owned, and the revenues are being used to finance a massive welfare state as well as the transition away from fossil fuels.
I think saudi Arabia moving away from fossil fuels isnt really true considering their (ODSP) is a plan to hook the 3rd world on said fossil fuels.
Developing countries need cheap energy
So, solar and wind? Both cheaper than fossil fuels at this point.
Then no one will buy the oil Saudi Arabia is selling if that's true
But if we were really serious about sustainability, wouldnt it be better to not get more of the world hooked and fossil fuels in that way.
Which is not me saying everyone should be driving EVs, because fuck cars.
Oil isn't just used for cars. A lot of countries use diesel trains on routes where electrification isn't feasible for various reasons. Here's a modern diesel train https://youtu.be/tFoljwX6o90
They also don’t seem to have many standards either. Specs and reviews I’ve seen seem to jump generations within a few months. I think my favorite ridiculous spec was the ability to use two fast chargers (one on either side of the car since it has two plugs) to pump some 300 miles in 5-10 minutes. It’s wild to read about the stuff they’re doing.
Is there any safety reason to not be able to have two plugs? I could see that being something we could do to renovate western gas stations for EVs in order to facilitate the transition. Just have two plugs side by side so Jim-bob could get his 300 miles in 10 minutes with electric just lol he does with his diesel now
Definitely heat, and a design to handle it. Ford has an issue with some Mach-E’s that the power junction would weld itself shut if you used the DC fast charger and floored the car shortly after. Once that happened it bricks the car and you gotta replace the part.
All EVs still require coal or oil for the electricity. And that doesn't even factor in mining for the metals to make these things.
EV are okay but they're not a solution to our resource consumption problem.
Edit: imagine being mad at the truth lol?
You seem to be forgetting that wind, solar, geothermal, hydroelectric, and nuclear power exist.
Not to mention that, even with coal generating the energy for the cars, EVs still have lower lifetime emissions than any ICE car.
But there is still the precious metal mining which often is diesel engines.
The point is regardless of what we use it is a bandaid to the issue. That issue being over mining our very limited resources
You’re right. Let’s do nothing instead.
It's not sustainable why are you mad at me for the reality of the situation. The capitalists are selling you on this being a cure all your anger should be with them
What do you suggest, then? Go back to horses and buggies? I've yet to see, in all of your whining, one fucking suggestion as to how we correct the issue. Society will collapse before we voluntarily throw ourselves back to the dark ages. Isn't a person on Earth living in a modern society, yourself included if you really think about it, that would agree to that.
Yo fuck off I brought up a point about EV shut up lol
Nobody here is saying it's a cure all. It's a step in the right direction. It's better than doing nothing and continuing on the course we've been on. Do you think an "all or nothing" approach has any chance of working?
And I'm not saying don't do it? Do you think it is all or nothing? I'm just bringing up the fact that EV isn't really that great
Diesel engines have nothing to do with what we were talking about.
And even if you want to call it a "band-aid", that's still better than letting the wound continue to bleed. It slows us down and gives us a chance to course correct, rather than barrelling ahead over the cliff at full speed.
The wound will still bleed our society is not sustainable.
the diesil trucks will also be replaced with sustainably powered ev machines too. think more than 12 months ahead.
lol okay in 12 months I'll google to see if we are still using diesel.
Spoiler: we will be
you are an absolute donkey mate.
I agree with you, but I urge you to spell it out a bit more. We still need to transport lots of goods across large distances, from distinct areas where an industry perhaps cannot be moved closer, eliminating the long distance transport.
More importantly, we do have options for recycling lithium from expended cells, not a zero-carbon process, but definitely better than continued mining.
Look, real talk: I think there very genuinely may be too many humans for this planet to naturally sustain. Even within society there are hints, in spite of the powers that be's attempts at obfuscation. Look how many bullshit jobs there are. Late stage capitalism is a lot more than a bogeyman from what I can see.
What are your thoughts?
Except that many places are majority renewables for electricity
That use plastics and rare metals and glass all of which aren't infinite resources.
Two decades from now we will still be struggling with a climate crisis and these "solutions" aren't solutions
Glass? That is in no way a rare resource. We have alternatives to plastic and alternative battery architectures are being developed from multiple quarters. It's true that these still have environmental impact but it's still a huge improvement over ICE vehicles.
Fully agree I only mention glass because it is viewed as an infinitely recyclable material but it really isn't. We live on a silicate rich planet but even then there is a limit and these are the conversations we need to normalize before we do this same thing to ourselves again with our mass consumption of all resources
For China specifically and at the present time this is true, but China is investing heavily into solar and other renewables that will shift its energy mix dramatically in the coming years. Not to mention that even now, it's still a net benefit to centralize that fossil fuel consumption into plants that can burn it more efficiently and with better pollution controls than are feasible on cars.
What? I charge my EV using the solar panels on my roof. I sell what extra I don’t use myself to the electrical company. I mean sure, I bet the delivery truck ran on diesel and so on, but that’s not what you said.