People are now just accepting that COVID is part of our lives. It's only a risk if you're extremely elderly, obese or otherwise particularly infirm, in which case, you're also vulnerable to bad flu's, not just COVID.

COVID is not something that can be beaten. No amount of lockdowns or vaccines will eliminate it. You'd only be postponing the inevitable. Permanent lockdown would obviously be an unsustainable idea, even if it was a popular one and vaccinating COVID is like vaccinating flu, it's impossible to keep up!

What is even the point of testing for COVID anymore? If you have bad symptoms, stay at home what ever sort of flu, cough or cold it might be!

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Realistically if everyone (literally everyone) were given n95's used them, and washed their hands any time they touch something someone else touched without touching their faces: we actually could beat things like COVID and the flu.

What makes it unrealistic is that people aren't that far removed from monkeys, and behave like it.

[–] Chetzemoka@startrek.website 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not even N95s. If people just did the bare minimum and wore a surgical mask and washed their hands frequently the instant they felt like they might be sick, we would work wonders to reduce spread, morbidity, and lost wages/productivity. We just need the same simple politeness around respiratory illnesses that already exists in some Asian nations.

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Do those Asia nations not have COVID or flu's?

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world -5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I think that believing we could eliminate flu like viruses is extremely optimistic, but it's not something I can really argue against because it's just an opinion.

I mean, presumably you wear an N95 at all times and keep your hands meticulously clean, but when you get ill, it's just some other idiots fault.

But if they were eliminated, flu's are probably the most common things for keeping our immune system in practice. If we all had immune systems that are completely out of practice with dealing with viruses. What could go wrong?!

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes, the last line of my comment very clearly addressed why it's unrealistic.

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Ok and my implication was that even with compulsory N95s and diligent hand washing that it would still be optimistic.

Are you wearing an N95 at all times you're in the vicinity of others and disinfecting your hands any time you've touched something that's been near yours or someone else's face? Because if not you're nothing but a virtue signalling hypocrit.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We literally did beat one of the flu variants due to COVID prevention measures.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/covid-may-have-pushed-a-leading-seasonal-flu-strain-to-extinction/

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You said did. The article said may have.

There are 18 HA sub types and 11 NA subtypes. The article implies that it was the lockdowns that specifically harmed the spread of the flu.

How long do you want us to be locked down for in the attempt to eliminate the other 28 and the COVID variants too? Please consider that it would have to be a world wide lockdown.

I understand that many people people are happy to swap their freedom for an idea of safety, but many others value their freedom too highly.

Please understand that I'm not saying that the measures against COVID weren't effective. I'm saying that total eradication of COVID is an unatainable target.

Countries like Japan and Korea wear face masks as a normal part of their cultures and dirty behaviour is extremely frowned upon there. They still have flu and COVID.

[–] 4lan@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I feel like you haven't thought this through. My cousin is young so he has very low risk of having serious side effects from his COVID. The thing is we had elderly grandparents at Christmas as well, one of which with stage 4 cancer.

There is a point to testing for COVID. If we don't test for it we have no idea how much it is spreading.

I used to get the flu once every 10 years, roughly. I've been getting COVID nearly every single winter.

There are relatively young people who are completely bedridden from long COVID. I've never heard of someone having years of their lives taken from them because of the flu.

Ever since I first got COVID I have had a irregular heartbeats and periods of extremely low energy

I find it funny you're creating a false dichotomy of either locking people in their homes for eternity or being free. We all had a chance to stop this in its tracks, nearly everyone around me was completely unable to sacrifice one summer of vacations. I know people who literally went on vacation knowing they had COVID, breaking state laws in the process.

If you didn't lose anybody to COVID that's great for you, but a lot of us did.

A lot of people believed our president at the time who said that it was nothing more than the flu, similar to what you are saying today.

I believe there should be legal repercussions for those who have spread that misinformation, leading to needless death

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Please don't open your comments with statements like "I feel like you haven't thought this through". We can have an adult debate without needing to imply that the other person is an idiot.

I do understand your point however, presumably your elderly and frail grandparents are also vulnerable to flu's, colds and all the sorts of different risks to their immune systems. So why stop at COVID? Presumably, if you were coughing up a lung or shitting through the eye of a needle, you wouldn't give grandma a big hug and a kiss just because it's not COVID, you'd stay at home anyway.

Sorry, I don't buy your idea that we had a chance to "stop it in its tracks". Even if we had a coordinated world wide lockdown that everyone abided by, it still would remain dormant in non symptomatic carriers or animal populations. COVID would just be waiting for us to unlock and it'll be back just as it was.

You then have to factor in that not everyone can lockdown. We still need the workers that produce our water and power, our food workers, our bin men and sewage workers, all the people that actually keep our countries running. A full lockdown is an impossibility.

Many people have the false impression that lockdowns were "to stop covid". They weren't, they were for bringing pressure off of over crowded hospitals.

[–] 4lan@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

We are both adults here, right? I think you can handle being told you didn't think it through. I'm not going to use kid-gloves with you and lie to you to serve your ego.

you are still going on implying that COVID is the same as the flu or a cold. The flu has never altered my heartbeat rhythms for years after.

You are still ascribing to the false dichotomy I stated in my comment when you say "not everyone can lock down" absolutely, except tons of people I personally know were still going out on vacations, some knowing they had COVID before flying to their destination.

Just because a full lockdown wouldn't have 100% wiped out COVID doesn't mean we should have given up on stopping the spread. It's not one or the other.

I feel like you are trying to make excuses for endangering the lives of other people so you can not be bored. My Grandfather is buried under 6ft of dirt because of this mentality in Texas. He died needlessly. He was an active man who was writing a novel and was constantly physically active. He had at least 10 years left

A lot of us are not going to forget the actions of our fellow man during the peak of COVID, especially those who lost loved ones needlessly

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ok. A well written argument of your own can make me look like I haven't thought things through. But if you feel the need to state it additionally for no other reason than I don't wholly agree with you or because put downs make you feel better or superior, then good for you. This isn't about my ego, I'm just trying to help you improve your debating skills.

I'm not going to debate long COVID. I don't doubt it is a real phenomena but this is because the facts around it are far too vague and this means that making serious policy decisions could be foolhardy. There is no real test for long COVID other than a random assortment of ailments that some people get some of and others get none of, supposedly related to a primary COVID infection in a minority of people.

I'm not arguing about people that broke lockdown laws. I'm suggesting that even with maximum possible levels of compliance that COVID can only be slowed, not stopped.

There is a debate to be had about freedom Vs proposed safety but I don't think we're going to agree. We'd just be wasting eachothers time and getting upset. Sorry you lost your grandad unexpectedly.

Some times shit things happen and there is no reason. It might make you feel better to blame "other idiots" but that doesn't change anything.