this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.ml
 
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[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 37 points 1 year ago (7 children)

What if I want to make my own farm?

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You could have a personal garden, but to have a farm you'd have to obtain a lot of land. Then you'd have to make the land productive with either large and resource hungry machinery i.e. capital or you'd have to obtain and exploit the labor of farm workers to work by hand.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What if i agree with some of my friends that we will join our yards to make one big field and work it together? We could also ask others for help and pay them for their work, the amount of money we both agree with.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 72 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You and your community collectively owning and operating a farm is literally a communal farm.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

but if some of my friends dont want to work it they can just sell me the land. And if we produce more food than we need we can sell it so we can buy other things we don't produce. I dont understand why its wrong to own a farm.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Personal property is for personal use. That's it.

Once you start to accumulate surplus property then its very obviously not personal anymore. A person that doesn't want a garden won't have one to sell you, because they wouldn't have one in the first place.

Don't think in terms of "right" and "wrong". Think materially.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago (20 children)

what if their father left them the garden and they want to sell it to me? what if they want to move somewhere else and they decide to sell me their property?

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Inheritance is antithetical to meritocracy is the basis for generational wealth and capitalist dynasties.

Everything must go, use it lose it.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What even is your motivation to do more than the bare minimum to survive if not to leave it to your children? I would rather take care of my kids future than let some corrupt government do it who will prioritize their children over mine

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago (16 children)

You can't even imagine helping your neighbors, huh?

[–] MindSkipperBro12@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You overestimate how much the average person cares for people they don’t know.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (8 children)
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[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

So what are all those people without kids doing?

Make a better world, build a stronger economy for them excel in and make their own way. I plan on providing the very best for my children to let them go about their life as they see fit and not have to rely on something I might pass down.

Corrupt governments is a cop out statement too, ideally you wouldn't stand for government corruption.

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[–] spacewitch@ttrpg.network 8 points 1 year ago

Substance farming is different than owning a farm that exists by its own production of food and selling those produced goods at market price.

[–] Creyapnilla@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Keeps the means of production out of the hands of the wealthy.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

who even makes farms at that point?

[–] Creyapnilla@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The government, literally the only option left when you take away the rich and poor.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

And who will make sure they don't abuse their power? Its basic human nature to be greedy. Who chooses the government? People voting?

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Its basic human nature to be greedy.

I'm so sorry you believe that.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Its sad but its true. Not everyone is bad but a lot of people are, if you don't believe that you are very sheltered.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

People aren't born bad. They're made that way and they need help.

Capitalism has trained you to see your neighbor as your enemy. It's a tragedy!

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Odd when I apply this theory to people like say Jeff Bazos it kinda comes off funny.

Oh those poor evil billionaires are just needing help, will someone not think of the tragic local monopoly man?

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[–] BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok then @queermunist , I'm seriously going to call you out on this now: please send me your money.

Like, seriously.

Send me all the money you have earned and saved up so far, if you really believe what you said.

Share your money with me. I'm not greedy, I need your money to live.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

It is not greedy to want to live and to have personal property! That's literally what the OP is about!

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[–] Rivalarrival 4 points 1 year ago

What if i agree with some of my friends

Remove "some" and redefine "friends" to mean "anyone, anywhere, at anytime, and for any reason", and you're golden.

[–] RoyaltyInTraining@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

I don't think most communists would have a problem with people trading crops that they grow themselves. The problem comes in when someone hires employees to grow more crops for them, starts collecting profits, and grows the farm even bigger. All under the expectation that they own everything that their employees worked for. Cause that's literally capitalism on a small scale.

Of course it needs to be possible for multiple people to come together and start growing crops, but only as long as no single person can take over the entire operation. Leaders would be elected, and be given a somewhat higher salary to reflect the additional responsibility.

[–] RickRussell_CA@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

That's a paddlin'

[–] hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

you going to manage a 10 acre farm by yourself and eat everything?

you can grow a few vegetables in a garden, but as long as people help you do it, it's not really personal property

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

10 acres is very very small and is not even a full time job for a person. Are you assuming this is all done without machines? like small hobby farms are all Amish or something? (actually even the Amish farm way more then 10 acres per person, they are not lazy)

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

(EDITING TO ADD THIS IS WRONG AND I MESSED UP THE CALCULATIONS. IT SHOULD BE 40 TIMES OR SO MORE)

Also just because this bugs me in a strange way.

10 acres of land growing wheat produces about 600lbs of harvested wheat a year. That is about 900,000 calories a year. Even of you ate nothing but wheat gruel you would just manage enough food for one person (about 900,000 calories assuming 2500 a day).

I think like a lot of people you have no idea the scale of farming required to feed the world. Is this why Holodomors happen?

[–] Casey_Masterpiece@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I think 600lbs for 10 acres is very low. That would be 1 bushel per acre. I think 30 bushels per acre is pretty low for current wheat growing areas. Just realized I could look it up and it's in the middle 40s per acre. So 24000 lbs for 10 acres.

[–] BruceDoh@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is an insanely low yield. You should be able to feed at least 1 person per acre with wheat. Other crops like corn and potatoes can have yields that are 2-4x larger from the perspective of calories vs. land use.

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[–] Creyapnilla@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Get some LEGOs

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