this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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Memes

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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.ml
 
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[–] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 108 points 1 year ago (10 children)

And now infographics are memes... Shitposts has more memes than this community.

[–] Furball@sh.itjust.works 48 points 1 year ago (3 children)

No, you see, you have to upvote it because communism is great

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[–] PaperTowel@lemmy.world 93 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This isn't really a meme

[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (18 children)

How's about a website that generates money, like Facebook or YouTube? Can you own that?

What about products that designed to create ongoing streams of revenue, like a patent on an invention or a piece of art you can collect royalties from every time it is displayed? The USSR famously took ownership of Tetris away from its creator.

Under communism, how does the stock market work? I'm not a big fan of it, but it's pretty hard to imagine getting rid of it now that the global economy is pretty much dependent on it.

Today, five countries exist that can be said to be communist: China, Russia, Vietnam, Laos, and Cuba. Of those five, none have achieved actual communism, and several have inarguably embraced capitalism to a great extent. All of them have essentially authoritarian governments. Which is unsurprising, since a dictatorship of the proletariat is central to the Marxist vision of how to create a communist society, and involves the creation of a single-party transitional government that forcibly suppresses all its critics and rivals.

I'm not big into capitalism and I think we should implement plenty of socialist reforms, but I will never understand why some people on the Left—or anyone for that matter—think communism is what we should be striving for.

[–] trot@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago (7 children)

"Today, five countries exist that can be said to be communist: China, Russia"

Tell me you have no idea what you are talking about without directly telling me you have no idea what you are talking about. In what way can today's Russia "be said to be communist", and how does its current, very explicitly anti-communist government, contribute to the point you are making?

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[–] deathbird@mander.xyz 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stock market? The thing where you buy tiny fractional ownership of of a company, too small to influence it, then try to sell that legal construct for a little more to someone else later? Why would you need that at all?

[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

As I said, not a fan of it, but the global economy is pretty entrenched in it. Can't just get rid of it cold turkey style.

[–] voidMainVoid@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The USSR famously took ownership of Tetris away from its creator.

He developed the game on company time. If he'd lived in a capitalist country, the government wouldn't have taken control of Tetris, but the company would have. Every software company contract I've ever heard of has a clause that says the company owns any code you produce while working there.

[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, but you choose to work for a company. Don't pretend that's the same as the government of the country you happen to be born in taking ownership of your creations. In a capitalist country, had Alexey Pajitnov chosen to develop the game himself, he would have made much more from it. If he had done that in the USSR, he'd still have his creation and all its monetary proceeds taken away from him.

[–] HorseRabbit@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Under capitalism your choice is to sell yourself or become destitute. That's not really a choice, it's just indirect coercion.

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[–] hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Those websites are highly capitalistic and never brought any innovation, all technologies related to the internet were researched by public money.

Look into patent trolls. Patents are bad, publicly funded research is always better, but it doesn't prevent people from spending money to do research, but it doesn't entitle them for the profits.

I'm not advocating FOR communism, I'm just trying to dispel myths.

Socialism is soluble with capitalism.

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[–] Lucane360@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (13 children)

No you can't own a platform like youtube or facebook, but you could make content on it, intellectul propriety is not a thing as you don't have to produce art just to get a monetary return, but just because you enjoy doing so, there's no need of a stock market in an ideal communist world because everyone gets what they need based on what they can provide, but if it's just a country i guess it's the government who takes care of it.

Regarding those 5 countries i'm not sure of every one of them, but talking about China as you said it's not a communist country but it is not a dictatorship of the proletarian either, as it's not the proletarian class nor their democratically elected representatives who govern the country.

In the end i'll add that greed is not more "human nature" that wishing to kill someone annoying.

[–] model_tar_gz@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We didn’t own Reddit’s platform, but we made content and engagement for that community anyway.

That worked out awesome. Let’s scale it up to an entire society.

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[–] hesiomn@lemmy.ml 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No cars though. Fuck cars.

[–] Rusky_900@reddthat.com 29 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'll never understand how owning guns is normalized.

[–] UnverifiedAPK@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Owning a personal weapon has been a thing since humans evolved

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

That's a Karl Marx idea..

Note, the idea doesn't support the idea of carry permits. Personally, dont have an issue with a hunting rifle or shotgun kept in a safe at home, but carry and especially cc permits are absolutely insane. You do not need a firearm that can be hidden for either home defence or hunting.

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[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 37 points 1 year ago (19 children)

What if I want to make my own farm?

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You could have a personal garden, but to have a farm you'd have to obtain a lot of land. Then you'd have to make the land productive with either large and resource hungry machinery i.e. capital or you'd have to obtain and exploit the labor of farm workers to work by hand.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What if i agree with some of my friends that we will join our yards to make one big field and work it together? We could also ask others for help and pay them for their work, the amount of money we both agree with.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 72 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You and your community collectively owning and operating a farm is literally a communal farm.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 14 points 1 year ago (15 children)

but if some of my friends dont want to work it they can just sell me the land. And if we produce more food than we need we can sell it so we can buy other things we don't produce. I dont understand why its wrong to own a farm.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Personal property is for personal use. That's it.

Once you start to accumulate surplus property then its very obviously not personal anymore. A person that doesn't want a garden won't have one to sell you, because they wouldn't have one in the first place.

Don't think in terms of "right" and "wrong". Think materially.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago (20 children)

what if their father left them the garden and they want to sell it to me? what if they want to move somewhere else and they decide to sell me their property?

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Inheritance is antithetical to meritocracy is the basis for generational wealth and capitalist dynasties.

Everything must go, use it lose it.

[–] ciko22i3@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What even is your motivation to do more than the bare minimum to survive if not to leave it to your children? I would rather take care of my kids future than let some corrupt government do it who will prioritize their children over mine

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago (25 children)

You can't even imagine helping your neighbors, huh?

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[–] RoyaltyInTraining@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

I don't think most communists would have a problem with people trading crops that they grow themselves. The problem comes in when someone hires employees to grow more crops for them, starts collecting profits, and grows the farm even bigger. All under the expectation that they own everything that their employees worked for. Cause that's literally capitalism on a small scale.

Of course it needs to be possible for multiple people to come together and start growing crops, but only as long as no single person can take over the entire operation. Leaders would be elected, and be given a somewhat higher salary to reflect the additional responsibility.

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[–] CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This was never the case... And never even remotely worked out.

[–] JakeHimself@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 year ago (14 children)

How do new means of production come to be? Like, if a community really wanted a unicycle repair shop, how would that get started? How would it be decided that we use resources for that shop instead of, say, a pogo stick repair shop? Would that be up to a local government (or some other governing body)? Honest question.

[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

My country used to have communism. Niche shops like this barely ever started as small businesses and instead usually started out as specialized departments of large all-encompassing state corporations. Instead of there being a company that specialized in making furniture, the furniture would be made by the logging company. The company that ran a chemical plant would directly sell shampoos, paints, toothpaste, fertillizer, etc. It cut out middle men but the products were usually crap quality because it couldn't focus on each product individually. This stifled progress. My dad wanted to learn programming (this was the late 80s) but because the government was too oldschool to open a computer science degree programme, the only way to get near a computer was to go to a university that specialized in mining and take a programme in mining machine automation.

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[–] daninet@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Communism meant that there were equal people and some more equal than others. If you have convinced the right people they got funds to do things. But it is highly burocratic and slow unless instructions come from above. Communism also meant that everyone capable of working must work so they made up many-many bullshit jobs where people just spend time.

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[–] Comment105@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Honest question, at what point does a workshop transition from ownable to not?

A small garage shop with a workbench and a tool wall is obvious enough, but can you own a separate workshop outside your home? Can it be far down the street, or out in a barn somewhere, or in the outskirts of town among large factories? Can you own a lathe? Can you own a CNC machine?

What tools are ownable and what tools are not? What's the scale-cutoff?

Bandsaws, drill presses, welders, large trucks, small trucks, cranes, sheet metal cutters and benders, pipe benders, etc.

Can you buy material? How much? Should it be limited by something else than your funds?

If you take on jobs that are too much for you to handle on your own, do you have to either make your means of small scale production communal, or give up the job?

Please draw some lines for me here.

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[–] Nano@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] Red5@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A country that has done remarkably well considering the blockade they have been under for 60+ years?

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[–] hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Food is rationned, meaning everybody has food, and healthcare is great.

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[–] anewbeginning@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

A good system to level off achievement and remove all the incentives to be productive.

[–] HeurtisticAlgorithm9@feddit.uk 22 points 1 year ago

https://www.spring.org.uk/2023/01/intrinsic-motivation.php

Turns out people are actually more productive if you don't force them to do it in order to live.

[–] MostlyBirds@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Good. Productivity killed the planet.

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[–] topRamen@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can you have your own garden for food?

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