Inspired by recent discussions, I think Hexbear has a lot of good information about socialism but I wonder if the relentless defense of AES on Hexbear means shooting ourselves in the foot, since many potential leftists have been thoroughly primed to react negatively to AES states?
We’re not getting our messages out when progressive instances have already pre-emptively blocked us and calling us “tankies”.
People are being turned away without even taking the opportunity to read some of the stuff here, because they already have a pre-conceived notion about Hexbear being filled with “crazy tankies who defend totalitarianism”.
I know there have been a lot of propaganda and fabrication being perpetuated about socialist countries, and it feels “right” to defend them against these false accusations, but I wonder if this is doing more harm than good for the present day nascent socialist movement, at least in the Western countries?
We can remain on the current course and feel indignant about the tankie accusations, but will forever remain as a niche “tankie” community.
Or, we can open ourselves up, by toning down the admiration for the socialist states so we are not being treated as hostile by the other instances, and thus opening up the opportunities to have productive interactions with users (and potential leftists) from other instances?
(I do have my own position, you probably know which one it is, but I’m willing to hear from others and reevaluate my own opinions if needed).
EDIT: Thanks to everyone who responded. All points are well taken. Thank you.
The common fictitious portrayals of those events. You made the distinction between portrayal and reality yourself. Either you debunk the fiction or you have to agree with the lies. If you debunk then that's what we already do, you seem to prefer the latter though, which is fucking stupid because why would anyone listen to someone who thinks holodomor was real but still supports the USSR. The only people you'd be able to convince with that line of logic would be Orthodox Georgian dudes who worship Stalin as a saint or some other variety of patsoc.
This user doesn’t think they are lies. They are a social-chauvinist who believes all the lies and slander and thinks we are the ones who are mistaken.
Once again, you're just making stuff up.
I also love how you seamless pivot from "criticisms of AES are all lies and slander" to "actually, I don't given a shit about that massacre that did in fact actually happen" to "The CCP is naive and incompetent", depending on the thread in question and like those aren't mutually incompatible positions.
That's a false dichotomy. When someone asks a communist organizer about Cuba's previous treatment of LGBT people or the Khmer Rouge, you don't have to launch into some 3000 word defense of it based on the historical context of the time. You don't have to play on their terms and on the defensive.
You can just say that LGBT rights or Human Rights are a cornerstone of the world that you you're seeking to build, and if that's a legitimate concern of yours, they have nothing to worry about. And you back that up by having a flawless record actually working toward that yourself, putting your money where your mouth is.
This need to re-litigate historical socialism anytime someone brings up the Soviet Union is super reminiscent of "the republicans are the party of Lincoln nonsense." We're not Stalin, or Mao, we have absolutely zero responsibility or accountability for any of their mistakes, real or imagined, and that's the point you hammer home.
Psh, you’re just naive and don’t understand that communism devolves into mass murder and starvation every single time that it’s tried because it goes against human nature. It’s literally NEVER worked, checkmate commies.
We also, as an addendum, get zero credit for their successes.