this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2024
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I’m so glad to be seeing a lot more of this type of content lately. It gives me hope that logic and reason can play a bigger role here on lemmy moving forward.
Was getting a bit bummed that it seemed to be a far leftist tankie haven.
Idk why you're equating far leftists and marxist-leninists. Lemmy will have a political bias depending on what your instance is. But the majority of Lemmy has had in the past, continues to have in the present, and for the foreseeable future will have a leftist bias. The software is made by leftists and has strong ties to the self hosted and GNU communities, which themselves are heavily associated with leftists and leftist politics.
It's way out of proportion to the tiny percentage of the politically active left that doesn't vote or doesn't vote Democratic. It's a feel-good virtue-signaling that does nothing but validate the lame excuses the establishment uses every time they lose to a fascist.
Despite the noise you see online (from people who's mind you won't change) leftists overwhelmingly hold their noses and pull the Democrat lever every 4 years. We don't need to be reminded of how much it sucks every damn day.
It's the ordinary non-policy-wonks that stay home on election day, and it's pathetic Democrats that make that happen. Sane Americans have checked out of the process because they don't see the point and have better things to do. They also aren't here to be preached at.
You don't need the left to show up to vote. We already do that. You need us donating to campaigns, passing out flyers, making phone calls, and countering the endless flow of bullshit from the right, and all the other things that you aren't doing because you are here feeling good about preaching to the choir.
The Democrats have my vote, but I can't stomach doing the establishment's work anymore. Just once I would like to be able to confront a rightist and not have them be able to counter with accusations of elitism and corruption that are absolutely true. Just once I would like to explain to someone how the Democrats actually will help them figure out how to get out from under a mountain of debt. I just don't have whatever it takes to advance campaigns of grift, elitist bluster, and empty promises.
12 percent of Bernie’s supporters stayed home in 2020.
You mean the voters who didn't show up to vote for Hillary Clinton didn't show up for Joe Biden? How could they??
Where's your ire for the people who voted for Biden in the primaries and fucked over progressive and leftist efforts hm? No lectures for them?
Why would I lecture anyone fucking over leftists? Fuck socialism.
Alright then enjoy fascism.
You got the talking point wrong. 12% of Bernie's supporters voted for Trump, but that doesn't mean what you think. This has been analyzed into the ground. Bernie attracted the left, but he also attracted generally anti-establishment centrists. The Democrats lost those votes by going with Mr. Establishment, just like they lost them with Mrs. Establishment 4 years prior.
The ENTIRE argument for Biden in the primary was that he could get pro-establishment centrists to beat Trump. Are we now being told that being able to reach voters that other Democrats can't is a bad thing? (By the way, pro-establishment centrists barely exist, but that's another issue.)
Now look at how many Hillary supporters voted for McCain instead of Obama.
https://acbc89.medium.com/more-sanders-voters-backed-clinton-than-her-own-supporters-backed-obama-c5dc37658fe5
It’s not up for debate that a large amount of Bernie Bros stayed home instead of voted. That 12% is only a portion of those that chose to vote against their own interests- the remaining asshats that threw a temper tantrum and stayed home were no different than the kids now.
Same show- different band.
First of all, fuck you for "Bernie Bros" slur. Bernie had the most inclusive campaign of any candidate.
The people who stayed home were not steadfast Bernie supporters. If they were, they would have done what Bernie asked them to do when he endorsed Hillary, and then Biden. Also, 12% is the smallest number we have seen in the last 50 years.
A huge part of this country absolutely hates establishment politicians of either party. Voter turnout in the US is abysmal because of that. Bernie had a unique ability to rouse those voters, and we could have had them in the general, bot nothing was going to make them show up for Joe Biden.
The insane logic behind your tantrums is that being a politician with a broader appeal than other politicians in your party is a bad thing. It's no wonder Democrats managed to lose to a circus clown.
You are not going to berate anti-establishment voters, especially conservative anti-establishment voters, into showing up at the polls. That is not a thing that happens in this reality. The only thing you might achieve is to convince even more voters that the system is hopeless and not worth their time to get involved.
The bottom line is, that this country was very likely doomed when Biden won that primary. He was the wrong candidate, and the reasons why are playing out before your eyes. The absolute best case scenario is that Biden manages to edge our Trump, and then God help the Democratic party in 2028.
Bernie Bros then, “gEnoCiDe jOe” kids now.
Same thing.
Yeah, getting pissed about genocide actually is kinda like getting pissed about a medical system that is killing people by the thousands. Setting aside your slur, you aren't entirely wrong.
If I were a Republican strategist, I would have trolls doing exactly what you are, in addition to trolls attacking Biden. Maybe that's even you, but I don't know how we could tell.
If you want to argue that Biden isn't as culpable for what's going on as many think he is, I think there is a case to be made. Biden sure makes it difficult, not to mention Pelosi's latest idiocy, but foreign policy is complicated. I personally don't think "Genocide Joe" is entirely fair, but I also know that you aren't going to convince people of that by being an asshole and throwing slurs at them.
Buddy, those were traditionally Republican voters who decided to vote for someone running as a Democrat. That's how much appeal Bernie had. I know this because I phone banked during the primaries and after people living in open primary states realized how primaries worked and I wasn't calling to fight Trump they got excited hearing about Bernie.
You're imagining that a bunch of voters who voted for Obama suddenly voted for Trump in 2016. Sure bud.
No, not all of them were. There were TONS of democratic voters that bailed when Berne dripped out. Don’t play it down. We were all there.
Oh I definitely bailed. I'm not denying that at all. But we were talking about Bernie supporters who voted for Trump. I voted but I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary.
Absolutely. So glad that under Biden the lives of many non white men got better.
This country was ran so differently under Trump. I couldn't even recognize it anymore. So different. Well, at least we know the secret that our two parties are so different. Stupid tankies and their talk of making things better.
lol… thanks for illustrating my point.
Those things have/haven’t happened under EVERY president. So therefore what you’ve done was given yourself (in your own ignorance) an excuse to never vote for anyone- EVER.
what you kids need to understand is that it’s happening with or without your participation. At lease if you participate, you have a chance to reduce the potential damage.
But you don’t care, do you? You’re too busy thumping your chest and suggesting dumb shit someone you didn’t know existed a year ago- wrote about book you never read.
Isn't that the problem?
Yes, it is the problem. However, sitting on your hands and not voting?
Show me an instance in history where NOT voting resulted in a desired outcome for those that didn’t vote.
Just ONE.
I do agree with you people should vote [but for a third party]. I misread your comment as basically saying "you people not supporting Democrats are just tankies doing a protest" which is nonsense I see all over Lemmy. I have seemed to mix up several topics. I do apologize for missing your point. Voting is important.
Still:
We’re in a vote to save democracy state right now. Any other time, or in times past- I’d be totally fine and completely understand third party voting. Hell, I’d support it as much as possible.
Not now.
We might be in the final moments of democracy’s life as we know it and I really wish people understood this enough to take it seriously.
I can’t stand Biden to be honest with you. He represents something that Donta in any way- resemble the direction America needs to go in. But we’re beyond those things being relevant right now.
Basically, what’s happening right now… is that we need to eradicate a cancerous tumor and all these kids want to do is cry about the side effects of the medication.
Nah the leftists are still here. We're either on burner accts and lurking or on defederated instances maintaining our peace from the rest of y'all.
Never said you weren’t here, just that a lot of you are finally being put in your place.
And as long as those defederated instances don’t find their way back- I couldn’t care less. You kids can scream at one another day and night- so long as noone has to put up with that ignorant garbage
I wonder what you think your place is
My place is reason and logic. And not turning sensationalization into a trend.
🤣
Yeah. I get that expecting these kids to understand that life is nuanced, and that things are far more complicated than what the cool kids at school say they are. It’s actually very funny now that I think about it.
I did the same shit what I was 15.
As a POC, this reads like some old, condescending racist wrote it.
You should probably fix how you read things, because there was absolute nothing racist about what I said.
Tell me, what "place" do I need to be put in, Pratai? Is it one where I do as I'm told and vote along the party line, in fear of the exact same shit happening no matter who's in charge?
lol… so you equate one being put in their place as a direct insinuation of racism?
You’re proving my point right as we speak. Manufactured outrage. There it is. You’ve purposefully misread my comment so you can create an argument outside of its own topic.
Stop doing this. It’s not helpful to anyone.
I hope you stub your toe today.
Walk away now kid. You lost. Blocking you now as having read through your comment history, you have nothing worthwhile to offer any discussion I might find myself in.
Im fuckin middle aged