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Your entire discussion seems milquetoast at this point. You didn't mean this, you didn't say that. Even here you send mixed messages-- is "lacking harm" something to be proud of? You say: "honestly, yeah".
I think you're just wasting my time at this point.
What am I supposed to say when you accuse me of saying something I never said?
Well, first off, you should have never made the dig about "speaking for yourself". Unless, of course, you just didn't know what I meant or what we were talking about, which clearly you did. You may disagree with whether it's correct to have national pride, but in a comment where I was replying to someone who did suggest they had national pride, your remark is borderline trolling, and it is what caused by misunderstanding at your actual point.
I see from the link you provided that you're a mod of this community. Behave better, lest we end up right back where we were with Reddit.
That's how you interpreted it, but I stated my intent clearly when you asked for clarification- yet you're still using it as a way to criticize.
Edit: Also, I don't see how me being a mod is relevant.
My point is that you shouldn't have made that comment at all. What purpose did it serve? You are aware that many people do take collective responsibility for their country, right? You would agree that if one is to take pride in the good, they should also shoulder responsibility for the bad, right? You are aware that when someone uses the collective "we", especially in the context of criticizing a country, that they may not (and are probably not) including their own personal stance in that comment, right?
You were trolling. The new question is: why? Are you so emotionally attached to the Marshall Plan being seen as an overall good thing that you needed to lash out? I don't get it. In fact, the only non-troll reason I see is that you do take credit for the good but refuse to take responsibility for the bad.
And since we're obviously belaboring this point: If not the individual citizen's responsibility, whose is it? Do you believe "every vote matters", or not? Do you believe in "of the people, by the people, for the people"? You may not feel comfortable taking pride in any national accomplishments, and that's fine-- I'm not sure there are even many in which to take pride-- but we all have a say in how society conducts itself and when it conducts itself badly, that is a failing for all of us. And if I'm being blunt, it has the same general feeling of some white man first learning about white male privilege and saying "You must be talking about yourself; I wasn't privileged!"
To critique your assertion of collective responsibility? You are free to disagree with what I said, but just as I have no authority to tell you what you should or shouldn't say- you have no authority to tell me what I should or shouldn't say. So, please stop(at least from my perspective) talking down to me in a condescending way.
Yes, and I have and will continue to voice my opposition to that.
Yes and no, it depends on what their reasoning is for what they do take pride in.
I don't agree with "probably not" but yes they may not be. But when they say we they are regardless collectivizing responsibility.
(Accused me of ad hominem)
I explained why I said what I said, you continue to use it to derail the conversation and criticize me personally.
I oppose the Marshall Plan.
That depends what you mean, it is a lot of individual citizens responsibility- but it is not mine. I do not advocate hate, I do not vote for hateful politicians, and I don't fund hateful organizations?
What does that mean? A vote can be used to have some impact, sometimes, but usually most votes don't have much of an impact when taken individually. That is to say, if one person changed who they voted for individually it wouldn't have much of an impact. Of course individual actions can add up?
Not really the principle or the reality, the reality really is "of some people, by some people, for some people"
No one has any obligation to act unless they agree to it. Inaction doesn't make them responsible for the actions of others. Furthermore, I have and do act in advocating for, voting for, and funding what I support.
Because it is the same rejection of tribalism.