this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
2177 points (99.9% liked)

Technology

59656 readers
2958 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Steeve@lemmy.ca 95 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Why's everyone blaming the engineers lol, pretty sure they're just doing what they're told right?

[–] HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 72 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly, headline should be more like "Google executives want Google engineers to make ad-blocking (near) impossible"

[–] oce@jlai.lu 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Isn't Google famous for giving a large amount of creative freedom to their engineers (and having a lot of dead published products as a result)? Also, Google engineers are not exactly stuck at their job with little hope of finding anything else to survive.

[–] foo@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago
[–] ffolkes@fanexus.com 9 points 1 year ago

I believe that policy was reduced or removed many years ago. Around the time when all the cool new projects stopped, and Google scrubbed "don't be evil" from their site and company philosophy.

[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 50 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Just following orders is not the ironclad excuse some of you seem to think it is.

[–] loom_in_essence@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

They're still bad people, but this kind of blame has to run uphill. The devs only have the option of quitting, not necessarily of not doing what they're told.

That being said, I bet there are some Very Good Boys who enthusiastically and proactively suggest some evil shit to the execs.

[–] Steeve@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago

I mean shit, they aren't launching nukes here

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Look dude, I hate advertising as much as anyone. I don't want any TV and most streaming services have wedged in some form of advertising nowadays and I avoid all that.

But equating engineers trying to solve a problem like engineers figuring out how to block ads isn't really equivalent to murder.

[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago

People only get held accountable for their actions and choices when the consequences are equivalent to murder? Their bosses hold some of the blame, sure, but they are not blameless and pretending they are just enables shit like this to keep happening.

[–] jlou@mastodon.social 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Doing what you're told does not relieve you of responsibility for the results of your actions

[–] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago

Ah yes, because "just following orders" has worked out so well in the past.

That's right, I just godwin'd this bitch.

[–] HurlingDurling@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because it is still unclear if this is an official project requested by Google or just some engineers working alone until Google adopts the project.

[–] mriguy@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The chances that a swashbuckling crew of rogue engineers organized a secret skunkworks project to implement their heartfelt, idealistic vision of an adblocker free web are… low.

[–] ultimate_question@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is exactly something an engineer who works at Google would want to work on, finding new ways to enrich Google is literally their job and there would be great personal benefit from coming up with the best way to implement this DRM crap for profit

[–] HurlingDurling@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

True, but it's not zero

[–] Goodie@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

The engineers are not blame free, and can do super shady shit too. For example, the issues with the WebHID "broswer" APIs.

[–] seang96@spgrn.com 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Software engineers have ethics classes, I'd imagine this would fall highly under unethical, just under building software for the military which google employees have protested in the past.

[–] False@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Software engineers have ethics classes

We do?

[–] seang96@spgrn.com 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It was required for my degree, I'm sure it is required at more than just my university lol

[–] ryry1985@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not my university. Outside of the engineering classes and prequisites for engineering classes, we only had to take rhetoric and a foreign language.

[–] seang96@spgrn.com 7 points 1 year ago

That's disappointing to hear. Talked about ethics throughout my courses and one was half the class. Hopefully more professors and instructions sprinkle it in there at least.

[–] Steeve@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Losing your ad blocker on chrome is "just under" software designed to kill people? Lol really? Oh the oppression

[–] seang96@spgrn.com 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure it won't kill people like programming drones, but it is still unethical and would affect ~5 billion people negatively.

[–] Steeve@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right, but you said "just under". There's a preeetty fuckin wide gap between blocking ad blockers and dropping bombs guy.

[–] seang96@spgrn.com 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  1. It's not just ad blockers that is m issue with this. Read Mozilla's post for a bunch of valid concerns.
  2. If you read my reply there is a comma prior to the just which makes a pause if it makes it better you could read it as [it's] just under... Either way I am not trying to make the wide gape you are referring to, I was simply stating it as a matter of fact more ethical then programming for military use but still unethical.
[–] Steeve@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm not saying concerns aren't valid, I just took your comment to be calling it almost comparable to military software.

"..., it's just under..." means the same thing, but I think you mean "it's just under" as in "although, it's under" rather than "just" being a measurement?

[–] seang96@spgrn.com 4 points 1 year ago