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'Gun-loving' GOP governor reportedly seen 'running scared for his life' from mass shooting
(www.rawstory.com)
this post was submitted on 15 Feb 2024
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This isn't a "gotcha". I'm a big fan of classic cars but that doesn't mean I'll stand there when one is driving fast straight at me.
I mean most pro-gun arguments boil down to “guns are needed because the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with one”, so when a large proponent of this argument is thrown into a situation where he could be the “good guy with a gun” and he instead runs away because he values his own life more than protecting the lives of those around him, maybe he should stop and dwell on that thought for a minute.
Would I charge headfirst into gunfire? Absolutely not, and thats why I advocate for more gun control.
Of course, this being funny kinda hinges on him having a gun on him at the time of the incident. Just because he is a proponent of a right being available if one so chooses doesn't mean he chooses to exercise it daily, and you can't use what you don't have on you.
Furthermore gun owners are under no obligation to have the hero fantasies often ascribed to them, many do it for simply self preservation who wouldn't run towards gunfire either, opting only to use it if they absolutely have to. That is a decision someone can really only make in the moment, too, many think "I'd blah blah blah," you might blah blah blah, it's an instinctual reaction.
Nah, it doesn’t. If I advocate for the right for everyone to carry grenades on them, and then I get put in a position where someone actually has one and I get scared shitless and run away, thats funny, regardless of whether or not I carry a grenade myself. Its funny because we all can obviously see that the right to carry fucking grenades is ridiculous, and by advocating for it I kinda got whats coming to me.
In fact, the more I think about it, if you advocate for guns, why not also grenades? If you are citing the “well armed militia” part of the second amendment, well, you’re not going to ever be able to fight a tyrannical government with bullets alone will you? And if you’re worried about the self defense part, a grenade would let you take care of a shooter thats behind cover without putting yourself in the line of fire!
And if you think you shouldn’t be able to have a device that could kill a crowd of people in seconds, because thats obviously stupid and dangerous, I beg you to take another look at your stance on guns.
Except that isn't what you said, what you said hinges on the "good guy with a gun" thing, so, yes, what I said is applicable.
This new argument is a little closer, but even then simply not wanting to further restrict rights for those who use them correctly even though they can be abused is not unreconcilable with also not wanting to be shot unjustly. I'd agree if he was a proponent of "the right to commit mass shootings" but nobody has ever said that, so I doubt he's the first.
Fair point, so long as you don't cause collateral damage since you'll still be held responsible just as you would be with a gun today, why not? I mean, it isn't the right tool for home defense imo since guns are much more targeted, but who am I to tell you you can't cut off your nose to spite your face by destroying your own house?
And cars, but "that's different" since while cars will be a cause of many more deaths than guns due to climate change, and they can kill 80 preople and injure 486 on Bastille day in France, they weren't "designed to," so it's fine, and nevermind that while guns were designed to kill people, sometimes it is necessary and acceptible to do so in self defense. We'll ignore all that because "reasons."
The difference is that a cars only purpose isn’t to kill or maim. There are very obvious positives to having widespread access to cars. I can point you countries where there is not widespread access to guns that do not have these problems. Can you point to any that have guns as accessible in the US that don’t?
Because I know your next argument will be about knives or cars again, let me address both of those: A knife is not nearly as deadly as a gun. You can at least run from a knife, its much more personal so less people are willing to use it, and you at least have a chance of fending off the attacker. Against a gun, your only hope is that they miss. And regarding cars, you’re right, they can be used as a weapon! Do you know what solves this issue while also still allowing people to commute? Public transport! Im glad we agree cars are an issue, and that public transport is needed.
Since you clearly don’t think everyone having grenades is ridiculous, how about rockets? Missiles? Should any citizen be able to obtain those too? Mustard gas? Nuclear weapons? How far are you willing to let that go before its obvious the cons outweigh the pros?
Well seeing as there are none that are exactly the same I suppose you've set yourself up for an answer you want, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that the Czech Republic, while they have a slightly different system and less guns to people ratio, they've had the right to firearms enshrined like America since the 1500s (except during nazi and communist occupations where they were outright banned and restricted to those deemed loyal respectively). Not only that, but in CZ just as US, though gun ownership grows, gun crime declines.
Furthermore, there are plenty places in the world where guns are completely banned, yet the criminals have them and use them regularly, like Honduras or Brazil. The problem though is you'll discount those places as ~~brown people~~ third world countries so of course those ~~savages~~ ~~poor browns~~ "unfortunate souls" kill each other a lot (which isn't racist at all somehow). Point still stands however, even illegal guns shipped to an island aren't prohibitively expensive to actual drug dealers, even without guns being legally available, people are making 1911s in the jungles in the Philippines with hand tools out of scrap steel that run just as well as a Springfield, the cartels get full auto M4s and South Korean grenades, those are illegal here much less Mexico and they still get them.
Ahh ableism! So fuck cripples who can't run, huh? And the old who are slower than most people victimizing others with a knife? And fat people? Might as well let him carve a few pounds off hmm? Or even women, since men run faster over short distances on average? Hope your last name is "Bolt."
Y'know what ends a knife fight quicker than running and prayer? Well, one time a dude pulled a knife on me and my then GF walking into walmart, before he could say anything I grabbed the grip of my CCW but didn't even draw it, he turned and walked away for some reason, couldn't say why but I have my theories. Must've been less than 10sec but felt like an hour, still though, nobody was hurt and I'm fine with that.
In theory, but in practice they're used to threaten and attack people regularly already even with legal gun ownership. They're cheap and actually accessible (there's no FBI NICs check or prohibited purchasers/possesors for knives). Btw you can run from a gun too, once you get 25yd away most people (especially criminals who aren't known to train or practice) will not hit you with a handgun, which are involved in the most crime (12,000 handgun to 500 rifle deaths a year, criminals like handguns for concealability.)
Well no, that Bastille Day incident I mentioned happened with a stolen ~~truck~~ "lorry." "Lorries" will still exist for shipping purposes. Furthermore bus drivers can also kill people, they aren't some saint just because they're employed by the city, they're drug tested 1x/yr for their CDL but that's about it, and busses can also be stolen. Though yeah, public transport could surely be improved I do agree lol.
Interesting you note this one, do you also think precursors to make mustard gas should be illegal since it's so easy to make? I mean, you support banning guns because they can be used illegally, or at least making them harder to get, why not ban/restrict the ingredients for mustard gas the same way? They're legal now, just like guns, you're just not allowed to kill people with it, just like guns. Maybe the issue isn't actually the implement used to do the killing, maybe the issue is the killing itself.