“We will continue to actively engage in the hard work of direct diplomacy on the ground until we reach a Final Solution.”
this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2024
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Okay since you've mentioned game theory let's do some.
For: T = trump wins B = Biden wins
M = Biden is just as bad as Trump N = Trump is much worse than Biden
Then the outcome table looks something like this where positive numbers mean a good outcome
T 0 -1
B 0 +1
Since if they're both bad it doesn't matter who wins, like you're insinuating. But if Trump is worse than Biden then it's obviously better to vote Biden because if Biden wins you get a 0 or a 1, but if Trump wins you get a 0 or a -1.
And also to anyone with eyes, ears or a brain, it's obvious Donald "I'm literally going to start a fascist dictatorship if I win" Trump is worse than Joe "Please don't commit genocide or I'll write you a strongly worded letter" Biden.
Also... we've seen this happen before. Hillary loses to Trump, we live through four years of a fascist administration (and all the shit that comes with it), then in 2020... we get Biden.
That user is, simultaneously, using criticisms of Biden to justify recreating the conditions that brought him into office.
And that user also used the Palestinians to justify letting the DNC lose to Trump, even though Trump is even more bigoted and pro-Israel. It's saying the best "strategy" to voice discontent over the genocide is to... accelerate it.
I'm not willing to go through four years of fascism, then if we get to vote again in 2028—which we wouldn't be able to take for granted—likely get some other milquetoast conservative Democrat. I'd rather spend the next four years trying to fight and push Democrats to the left than to fight GOP fascists.
Yeah it's very much cutting off your nose to spite your face.
"You know what will show those bastards at thr DNC? If we let trump win and let him ruin our lives1 Imagine the look on Bidens face when I get beaten by magahats, lol.
Moderate voters elected Joe Biden and in the same breath where they say Democracy is at stake they sneer at the idea of compromising with leftists or progressives to save it.
Moderates are the problem.
Moderates being the problem doesn't mean not voting is the solution.
I'm voting 3rd party or writing in.
Here's a solution you haven't explored: Go scream at moderates for once.
The Kremlin thanks you for your service.
Would moderate voters prefer I helped Biden win? Seems like a good opportunity for them to negotiate yes?
In these precarious moments with Democracy and Fascism on the line, is it really smart to shove a stick in the flimsy bicycle we already have that can possibly avert this?
I say no, it is not the time to negotiate. It is time to fall in line and deal with the big fish first.
You would have us negotiate only after we've given away the biggest bargaining chip we have? I can tell you exactly how that's gonna go. Moderates will give us the finger and call it a day.
There will be more elections down the road with less precarious leaders and less crazy consequences should they lose. Bargaining chips occur during primaries; Democrats have none for good reason this cycle — and even the progressives are in consensus.
Unless you want to run for office — then by all means.
Oh? Is that why we got Biden? Because of all those bargaining chips we have?
Anyway you didn't even try to deny that moderates will just give us the finger and walk away. You know it's true.
You act as though progressives are the silent majority. We are deeply the minority in this country. We're the smartest voters who, yes, Democratic strategists know will fall in line because we are aware of the greater poison. We don't really have a bargaining chip in the first place.
What's more is have you analyzed what would happen if Biden pivots heavily to us but loses the more conservative moderates who are the majority or more importantly, swing voters in swing states...?
Until we slowly overtake the Democratic party and the previous generation dies off, change is going to be slow and steady. Surely you'd agree it's easier to destroy than to maintain or make progress. Such is the nature of entropy. So when progress isn't on the table, I'll take stability over someone smashing the puzzle.
Then we cannot possibly be primarily responsible when a Democrat candidate loses in the general election can we?
Are you acknowledging moderates would rather lose to fascists than compromise with leftists and progressives?
Nope. What I'm saying is that you clearly have a minimal grasp on polling data, and that the consequences of ceding everything to your demands means ceding the entire election to Republicans because the offset from conservative swing voters is greater than the risk of progressives sitting out. One would be a terrible campaign advisor if you suggested this. Hence why Biden is toeing the line between publicly disavowing Israeli action, withholding Apache helicopters, labeling the bombings as indiscriminate, and clearly pivoting away from Israel but still trying to court the conservative and Jewish voters in America.
So until you can give a substantive, data-driven response as to how Biden can maintain or pick up voters without risking the entire election to the true fascist, then I don't buy your argument.
Ok then don't cede everything. Cede something. Make an offer.
So we're gonna try the same tactics as before.
Right? It's crazy when moderates bring up 2016 as if it were a lesson for progressives and leftists. The lack of self awareness is ridiculous.
Do you think the same people who refused to show up for Hillary in the 2016 general voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries?
The elephant in the room here is that moderates are the largest voting bloc in the Democrat party. That means they hold the lions share of the responsibility for outcomes. If they steamroll the primaries to vote for a candidate that isn't popular with wings they need to win general elections they are responsible for that decision.
Well, no. I'm not sure what point you think I was making.
My point is that the DNC isn't going to be pushed left by a loss. The leadership is old, stubborn, and stupid. They'll tell leftists to shut the fuck up during the primaries because they don't matter, then blame them after a loss because suddenly they did matter enough to make the difference. When it turns out that most leftists held their noses and voted Blue anyway, they'll just ignore it. Then, if we get to vote again, they'll take exactly the wrong lesson, and just push harder to the right.
The point in bringing up 2016 is because they did push a centrist candidate, she did lose to a fascist clown, and then, four years later, they pushed Joe Biden. Why on Earth would anyone expect them to do anything different if it happens again?
I see the problem you're making, it's not always obvious so it's kind of hard to deal with.
The issue is expecting logic to have any affect on some people.
(It's always worth the effort I'm just poking fun) :P
Where’s the table with the third party candidates?
Hahahahahaha!
How old are ya bud? Is this your first election?
I see you have boomer in your name, must be all that lead and asbestos. Cheers for the laughs, moron
Chronic stress puts your health at risk