this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
0 points (NaN% liked)
World News
37267 readers
535 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This guy is equally trash than Putin
Really? He's equally as bad as the guy responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths due to invading a few neighbouring countries?
Not denying that Ukraine and Zelensky have their fair share of issues but I reckon saying they're just as bad as Putin is more than a little bit disingenuous.
Does it makes a difference if you kill one person or 100? For charts maybe but you are still a murderer even if you kill a bunch. All politicians have blood in their hands, they don't fight their wars, we do it for them and we get forced to do it. Ukraine is under martial law, males between 18 and 60 can't leave the country.
When making a comparison, the difference between the two things you're comparing do in fact matter.
Do you really think that killing in order to defend yourself and others is the exact same thing as killing in support of ideologies such as fascism or imperialism? Iraqis defending themselves against Americans and Georgians defending themselves against Russians is morally identical to killing children because they speak the wrong language, worship the wrong god, or have skin that's the wrong colour?
And how might that one be?
Because from an outsider perspective he seems to be doing alright and anecdotally a Ukrainian man I know says the people around him like Zelenskyy
He brought his country to war for the US to make a bit of money. He's a traitor to his people. Not only as a Ukrainian but as a Jewish Nazi collaborator.
So, Ukraine was invaded (twice) by Russia with no provocation... but he brought the war? Seems like Russia brought the war and he's doing right by the Ukrainian people by defending Ukraine.
And by all means, please list all the ways the he is a Nazi collaborator and traitor to the Ukrainian people, with sources please.
Once on invitation of Crimea to save them from the fascist regime and the second time after 8 years of negotiations to try to avoid war, in the face of an ethnic cleansing of its national allies too. Sure, Russia brought the war. Where do you get your information from? The news?
The guy is constantly pictured standing with Nazis.
He literally wears Nazi iconography and is leading a country with an ultranationalism rooted in Nazism. Have you never heard the expression "Slava Ukraine?"
So there is overwhelming evidence of ethnic cleansing? I have yet to see any. In the age of cell phones, there would be so much evidence.
I'm sure there are some people in Russia asking the United States to remove the dictator Putin from power... Yet, the United States didn't invade Russia. You don't get to just invade a sovereign country because a very small number of people asking.
That's your evidence of being the Nazi collaborator flags in the background? Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought with the Nazis trying to free Ukraine from the soviets, as some fought with soviets to free Ukraine from the Nazis. Both were fighting to free Ukraine. Finland joined the Nazis, not because they agreed with the Nazis but to fight against the invading soviets.
Sadly there are many places that have neo-nazis, but they are in the minority. Neo-nazis exist in places hurt by the Nazis greatly, like Poland, France, Britain and even Russia.
Here is Putin standing with a Russia Nazi: https://romea.cz/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fromea.cz%2Fapp%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F02%2Futkin.jpg&w=1200&q=75
And you just attack a slogan that basically says victory to Ukraine from the invaders? Now you're not even trying
What do you think it looks like? You want a picture of the language laws?
Yeah that's why they got Ukraine to threaten them and start a war, to "weaken Russia".
Ahistorical Nazi apologism now. Look at yourself. Full mask off.
Again, Have you never heard the expression “Slava Ukraine?” It's not a minority that's repeating that.
That's fake. The guy on the left is not the same guy as the one on the right. This has been debunked. It's one of only two photos in existence like this. The other is a Russian general getting an award wearing a Ukrainian coat with a totenkopf on it. Wherase there are literally thousands of pictures of Ukrainian Nazis.
You're finished now Adolf.
Please list some laws.
What was the threat against Russia? Were they going to invaded Russia? Ukraine barely had an army. Ukraine gave up it's nuclear weapons in the 1990s in exchange for security protections, signed by Russia, Ukraine, Britain and the United States, promised that none of the nations would use force or threats against Ukraine and all would respect its sovereignty and existing borders (Budapest Memorandum). Putin broke that treaty and is trying to create his dollar store version of the Soviet union by invading other countries.
So, explaining historical context is apologizing for Nazis?
Slava Ukraine is said by Ukraine, I never said it wasn't. But you never explained how that makes them Nazis. If Ukraine was invading other countries, it might have a different meaning but it's just them defending their country. If their slogan was "heil Hitler" you might have a point.
Wow, thousands of wanna-be neo-Nazis!!! Out of a population of 43 million. So, like .002% of the population!!! You're right, that's not a minority!
I say the picture of zelenskyy is fake... If I just say it, it must be true.
Okay, Stalin. So, you just resort to name calling... I can too. Hitler and Stalin were monsters and it's sad to see that Putin is acting like a mashup of the two of them.
Really? You want their codifications? The titles of the laws? JFC, the dishonesty on display. You're just trying to give me busywork because you have no comeback. Are you trying to tell me that you deny that these laws exist?
Constant big talk about joining NATO and installing nukes in Ukraine, eliminating the possibility of MAD. Ethhnic cleansing on its doorstep of ethnic Russians.
Putin didn't break any treaty, Russia legally invaded Ukraine after he lost a motion in the Duma about the recognition of the breakaway regions. Once they were officially recognised Russia had to protect them from Ukraine's Nazi forces.
If you're "explaining" in order to make excuses for them, yes.
It's a Nazi slogan, used by Nazis. next question?
You think Nazis are only Nazis if they're invading somewhere? Weird idea. Anyway they were invading the autonomously declared regions in Donbas. A people who wanted self-determination to escape the threat of Nazi ethnic cleansing.
Thousands of pictures. Anyway, nobody said that everyone in Ukraine was a Nazi. The state is fascist and has invented holidays honouring Nazis and renamed streets and stadiums after Nazis.
Stalin defeated the Nazis. Ukraine has never forgiven the Russians for that.
You're the one making claims of laws that are responsible for ethnic cleansing, so you should be able to provide some examples.
There are no nukes in the Baltic states (they are already NATO members but Ukraine isn't), why would they put nukes in the Ukraine? Plus the US and Russia could already hit anywhere in the world already. So, it's a made up threat to try to justify an invasion.
Slogans can have different meanings depending on context. If Ukraine was invading other countries, then Glory to Ukraine might sound like they are superior but if they are defending it sounds like they will be victorious. Plus, Slava Ukraine sounds more like a the Soviet union slogan "glory to the motherland."
Man, if you think that historical context are excuses. You could never read a history book then... Which might actually explain a lot...
Putin did break the treaty he invaded the boarders of Ukraine. You can't illegally invade a country then have an illegal vote to declare a breakaway regions under an military occupation.
Stalin defeated the Nazis then proceeded to kill millions of people... And you wonder why so many former Soviet countries want to join NATO for protection. One monster replaced with another.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/25/ukraine-adopts-law-enforcing-use-of-ukrainian-in-public-life
https://twitter.com/Kanthan2030/status/1632366929745940480
https://twitter.com/RueDaungier/status/1650503466706452484
The point is not to put nukes there, the point is to threaten Russia to provoke a war. It worked. Why expand NATO at all? The USSR doesn't exist anymore, it should have been dismantled.
Nazi slogans are Nazi slogans regardless of context. If you start chanting "Sieg Heil"do you really think the excuse that you haven't invaded anywhere is going to wash? Besides, Ukraine invaded the breakaway republics and killed thousands, including civilians while chanting these Nazi slogans.
Stalin was by no means perfect but this millions of people crap is just ahistorical yank propaganda that you've been brainwashed with.
So name a law BEFORE the invasion (2014)... Remember you are trying to justify the illegal invasion. It looks like the stuff you list was in response to the invasion.
Let me think... Why would countries want to join NATO. could it be Moldova, Georgia, Abkhazia... Seems like there is a need. Seems like Putin is trying to rebuild the USSR.
Okay, the Soviets used Nazi slogans, got it
Wow, Stalin not that bad? He's not as bad as Hitler but still close. Stalin was just over a longer span of time. To the point the Soviet union even tried to De-Stalinization the Soviet union. My parents grew up under Soviet oppression and it was not a good time.
Name a law before the Nazi coup overthrew Ukraine and started the ethnic cleansing. Well done, you've managed to move the goalposts so far that nothing makes sense anymore. Russia was invited into the independent Autonomous Republic of Crimea by its leadership in order to protect it from the Nazis after the American coup.
The vast majority of actual citizens of countries all over Europe are opposed to America's war in Ukraine, as opposed to their American influenced leadership.
This is just American propaganda. Your parents' experience is at odds with most peoples'. Almost everyone who lived in the USSR preferred it to what came after.
Plenty of russian likes putin too, they are victim of propaganda. I'm sure these Ukrainians between 18 and 60 who want to leave the country but they can't don't like their government much.
Idk about that - one has tried to get into EU and fight corruption, the other voted to devour his neighbouring country for increasingly petty reasons.
It's not petty to respond to threats of nuclear annihilation by a fascist Nazi regime next door. Come on now.
What nuclear capability does Ukraine have currently?
None at all. The threat was that they would join NATO and install nukes.
There was no threat made. Even if Ukraine had entered into NATO, NATO had made no noise about stationing nukes in Ukraine. It could well have kept the status of the Baltic states where they don't have nukes stationed there. There's really no strategic value to NATO to do so. That was an excuse made up by the Kremlin.
Here you go. There's also a video of him demanding pre-emptive nukes be used against Russia.
Zelensky did not ask for pre-emptive nukes against Russia. That was an erroneous English translation. And I said NATO had made no noise about stationing nuclear weapons. For that matter, it's a bit of a reach to say that Ukraine is requesting that nuclear weapons be stationed on its territory, but rather that it gave up nuclear weapons in return for an agreement that Russia has now breached.
"But Zelenskyy’s response to a question from Lowy Institute Executive Director Michael Fullilove, who moderated the discussion, did not specifically mention nuclear weapons."
While talking about nuclear weapons, what else does preemptive strikes mean? This is new levels of cope.
Here's his direct threat of installing nuclear weapons.
Look back at the quote in that article. He's not talking about wanting nuclear weapons. He's talking about entering into NATO with its Article 5 protections because the Budapest Memorandum has failed.
Beginning:
End:
Putin and the Kremlin then twisted those words into nukes, when Zelensky explicitly only wants to replace the failed Budapest Memorandum protections with Article 5 protections. Despite all of Putin's bluster, he knows damn well the US isn't going to help Ukraine obtain nukes. The US, the Soviet Union, and other nuclear powers have gone to considerable lengths to avoid nuclear proliferation.
Refuting a poor translation is not "copium". The original Ukrainian did not have the English connotations of nuclear weapons, but was more along the lines of general preemptive actions.
Does it not give you pause when you hear yourself say weird shit like this? You think Vladimir Putin himself is involved in creating propaganda? The Kremlin is a tourist museum. Listen to yourself, you're just a parrot repeating gibberish that you don't understand.
The rest of your comment is just a poor effort to ignore the website I linked you to.
"Putin and the Kremlin then twisted"... jfc
When Putin gives a speech that spreads misinformation about what Zelensky says then yes, he's very much part of spreading propaganda and misinformation.
You do realize I'm not speaking literally? I'm using the common metonymy for the Russian Government, just like The Pentagon for the US armed forces, The White House for the US presidency, #10 Downing Street for the UK Prime Minister, Beijing for China's government, and so on. But more literally, the Grand Kremlin Palace is the residence of the Russian president.
For the third time now, what Zelensky said was real. I provided you with evidence for this and you've ignored it, again.
I realise you're mindlessly repeating cheesy propaganda tropes. All of these other places you listed actually contain functioning state decision making apparatus.
Zelensky threatened Russia with nukes. Now you know this for a fact.
What Zelensky said in Ukrainian about preemptive strikes was real. How an English speaker is hearing the translation is not.
Do you actually know what you're talking about, or are you just insulting me on principle? There are various kremlins, most of which are museums but one of which is the working office of the president. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Kremlin_Palace
Please, do tell how Zelensky threatened Russia with nukes during a speech that mentions a desire for NATO membership (which Ukraine has not been shy about) but never expresses a desire for nuclear weapons.
So you're going to continue to pretend you missed the link I provided you with, for a fourth time now and instead focus on an iffy refutation of an irrelevant translation?
You're not fooling anyone with this.