this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2024
50 points (74.0% liked)

TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

3805 readers
414 users here now

/c/TenFoward: Your home-away-from-home for all things Star Trek!

Re-route power to the shields, emit a tachyon pulse through the deflector, and post all the nonsense you want. Within reason of course.

~ 1. No bigotry. This is a Star Trek community. Remember that diversity and coexistence are Star Trek values. Any post/comments that are racist, anti-LGBT, or generally "othering" of a group will result in removal/ban.

~ 2. Keep it civil. Disagreements will happen both on lore and preferences. That's okay! Just don't let it make you forget that the person you are talking to is also a person.

~ 3. Use spoiler tags. This applies to any episodes that have dropped within 3 months prior of your posting. After that it's free game.

~ 4. Keep it Trek related. This one is kind of a gimme but keep as on topic as possible.

~ 5. Keep posts to a limit. We all love Star Trek stuff but 3-4 posts in an hour is plenty enough.

~ 6. Try to not repost. Mistakes happen, we get it! But try to not repost anything from within the past 1-2 months.

~ 7. No General AI Art. Posts of simple AI art do not 'inspire jamaharon'

~ 8. No Political Upheaval. Political commentary is allowed, but please keep discussions civil. Read here for our community's expectations.

Fun will now commence.


Sister Communities:

!startrek@lemmy.world

!memes@lemmy.world

!tumblr@lemmy.world

!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world

Want your community to be added to the sidebar? Just ask one of our mods!


Honorary Badbitch:

@jawa21@startrek.website for realizing that the line used to be "want to be added to the sidebar?" and capitalized on it. Congratulations and welcome to the sidebar. Stamets is both ashamed and proud.


Creator Resources:

Looking for a Star Trek screencap? (TrekCore)

Looking for the right Star Trek typeface/font for your meme? (Thank you @kellyaster for putting this together!)


founded 10 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Seriously. They have enough trouble accepting people with different gender identities now. Thirty years ago? Even the concept of “gender identity” was enough to make their heads explode.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Amusingly, even the creators of The Outcast didn't realise they were making an episode about gender identity. They saw it as an episode about sexuality, and about providing representation to gay people. Which isn't an incorrect reading, obviously, but I think most people would agree that interpreting it as a trans allegory is a much stronger reading.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I don’t now, nor did I then see it as a representation or allegory for gay people… although… I suppose someone who knew little-to-nothing of trans (or gay) people might mistake it as such— and in 1992, a lot of people probably made this mistake. So, I can see this being the case back then.

But I have trouble believing the writers didn’t know what they were doing, as they seems to capture Soren’s struggle in a pretty heartfelt and accurate way. I think the only character whose sexuality may have been considered in that episode was Riker’s, as it immediately and unequivocally established him as pansexual without even mentioning it. And that’s how you do it. Just like Jadzei Dax’s bisexuality. Or Garak’s. It was a footnote at most. We only learned about either/both through incidental actions, not because it was either announced or made a spectacle of, and neither of those characters were ever defined by it.

Edit: For me, though, at the age of 13, this episode was my introduction to the concept of transgenderism. And, for that matter, the concept of being non-binary. And both were explained in very clear and simple terms, and in accepting, non-judgemental ways. And I’m so grateful that Trek thought me these lessons first before others tried to teach me another message later. For I knew that they were wrong because what Trek taught me was something different: love and understanding and empathy and compassion and acceptance— for without those things, people get hurt. People suffer. People die.

People like me.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The key to the gay allegory is to take a much less literal look at it. It's about representation of a person who is ostracised for reasons related to the broad category of "sex and gender expression". It is a metaphor, after all, so there's nothing wrong with being less literal about it.

Speaking of Riker, Jonathan Frakes wanted Soren to be played by a man, to make the message stronger to the contemporary audience. I think the studio chickened out?

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Oh, regarding what the episode was supposed to be, IIRC, it was supposed to be a straight-up story about a gay male alien escaping an oppressive society that Riker hooks up with. Like, there wasn’t any metaphor or allegory beyond gay oppression in contemporaneous society, it was just that. And, of course, Rick Berman, an inveterate prick and widely-known homophobe absolutely shut that shit down. It got rewritten repeatedly into what it became, and, yes, Frakes still wanted Soren’s character to be played by a male, but Berman adamantly refused due to his own bigotries. Sure, Paramount may have gotten cold feet about it anyway, maybe not, but it never got that far.

Eventually, it got to the form we finally saw on screen, but, in retrospect, it’s a much stronger piece for it, and, at least in my eyes, the story is quite straightforward. It’s very plainly a trans character in an enby society which forbids gender expression of any kind, and that’s the source of the conflict. Additionally, there’s the allegorical references to the lgbtq+ community as a whole and otherism generally, but neither of those concepts are directly the subject.

Of course, people are going to read a lot more into it as they personally identify with it, and I’m not in any position to criticize or judge that. I’m just giving my own interpretation.