the "parapsychology" thread got nuked but the discussion reminded me of a Return of the Repressed podcast episode I had listened to in December
it was a Q&A episode and in his typical style, the host Marcus went deep on a question posed by fan/collaborator Reid (@seriations on twitter) regarding the role of magical-religious (i.e. non-materialist) beliefs in proletarian revolution. We're all familiar with the ways the bourgeoisie promote and exploit these sorts of beliefs to their own ends (ex. Filipino aswang vampire psyops vs the Huk guerillas, Indonesian anticommunist "witch hunting" vs Gerwani feminists, Operation Wandering Soul trying to freak out Vietcong with "ghosts", etc etc etc, up to Qanon and the UFO-cult of today) -- and of course, how their own worldviews are often propped up by these sorts of beliefs (ex. social hierarchies are in fact justified by genetic blood-destiny) -- but what about the inverse? How might we use them, too?
(note with respect to the aforementioned "parapsychology" thread, this is not a question of whether some such belief might be substantiated, proven "real" or not, but rather of strategy)
Marcus explained his first intuition was to look at the history of accusations of vampirism lobbed at feudal European aristocracy (ex. Elizabeth Bathory), but abandoned this line of inquiry when his research suggested that these accusations actually tended to reflect intra-class conflict between rulers/institutions of the time, i.e. factional power jockeying.
Changing tack, Marcus then offers a long exploration of the contentious historical relationship between Chinese secret societies, magical-religious beliefs, martial arts, and rebellion.
To anyone curious about how these things might intersect (short version: it gets messy), I would recommend the episode and I'll drop some other related links below
https://podbay.fm/p/the-return-of-the-repressed/e/1703245745
SHOW NOTES
In these dark times its difficult to find reason for making believe, this will all change once you hit play. Answering Reid for almost two hours I will do my outmost to lift you spirits to unknown heights. Counterintuitively by taking a deep dive in to Chinese secret societies, covering thousands of years, culminating in a communist community exorcism by the black and red Dao.
We are talking apotropaic magic, the swallowing of protective charms, anti-fascist Kung Fu fighting, mystic mind-control and brain washing in the Tang dynasty, social tech of the Henan peasantry and the socialist Shaolin monks who would liberate Beijing from the compradors, the war and drug lords as well as imperialist invaders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Lanterns_(Boxer_Uprising)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Spear_Society
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Spears%27_uprising_in_Shandong_(1928%E2%80%931929)
➡️ The Red Spears, 1916–1949 Tai Hsüan-chih translated by Ronald Suleski https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3998/mpub.19970
➡️ The Red Spears Reconsidered: An Introduction Elizabeth J. Perry https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/166/oa_edited_volume/chapter/2707255
➡️ Secret Societies Reconsidered: Perspectives on the Social History of Early Modern South China and Southeast Asia: Perspectives on the Social History of Early Modern South China and Southeast Asia by David Ownby (Author), Mary F. Somers Heidhues (Author) https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/edit/10.4324/9781315288055/secret-societies-reconsidered-perspectives-social-history-early-modern-south-china-southeast-asia-mary-somers-heidhues-david-ownby
➡️ "Secret Societies" Reconsidered: Perspectives on the Social History of Early Modern South China and Southeast Asia (review) Scott Lowe https://muse.jhu.edu/article/396407/pdf
If someone wants to believe they can talk to the dead or receive the holy spirit through bread or there’s a heaven after death, but otherwise all their activities and interactions with real suffering people are grounded in this realm of existence, why should I give a shit?
Sure. But the beliefs themselves have an effect in real life. If all these controversies with pedophilia and mega churches and cults haven’t convinced people to drop their religions, then it’s pretty clear that we have to work with these systems.
The socialist movements that try to eradicate religion because they don’t care or misinterpret Marx’s ideas have failed at doing so. Cubans and Vietnamese prohibit religious institutions from gaining too much influence, but that’s much more reasonable than demanding that no one participate in them. You can only do that by uplifting them from their miseries.
The west has exploited religions of the people they’ve oppressed to their advantage greatly. Look into the build up to the Soviet Afghan War if you want to see WASP politicians talking to Muslim extremists about “God” as if they share the same religion
If you can’t even acknowledge that these “fantasies” can create or destroy entire movements regardless of what their god and books say, then I don’t know what to tell you
You shouldn't, but those beliefs have nothing to do with leftism. In fact they are often used to suppress it, which I think is where the general hostility comes from.
You're right, it doesnt have anything to do with the left... that's the point. OP is talking about the intersection between supernatural shit and material reality. My point is, if you ARE a leftist and do all this weird shit, who cares as long as you're advocating for food and medicine and not prayers and crystals?
I understand. In fact I hate religion. But I'm also disciplined enough to not walk around with a spaghetti monster shirt and pretending that I can convince people of the science of marxism leninsim just because I'm correct.
In my original comment all I said was it wasn't constructive.
I think you're thinking I was even involved in the original post. I didn't post in there or insult anybody's beliefs.
I don't even know what post you're referring to. I'm referring to this post that we're commenting and replying on right now
https://hexbear.net/post/2197425
The one SorosFootSoldier is referring to in his comment above