this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2024
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Hotels exist for a reason, and they involve actual labour and upkeep
In theory the same is true for a landlord who is expected to maintain the homes they are renting out.
The thought that homes don’t require upkeep is insane. I’ve lived in my home for just five years and have spent tens of thousands in just maintenance alone.
Yes, but you don't pay a landlord and a cleaner and a plumber the same, why?
Because they derive value not from their labour but from supply and demand, thus those who own assets derive value primarily from the rarity of such assets. This pressure for increasing rarity is why capitalism is a failure where the overall trend is downward, where the few hoard assets they get off other assets, and the masses who trade in their labour have that labour become increasingly less and less valuable.
That would probably mean that the pay is much less unless the maintenance is required every other day
So is someone supposed to rent a hotel room for 3 years when they move away from their home town to go to college?
No, all housing should be publicly owned to prevent landlordism and accumulation of capital, so where you will be moving from and moving to will all be owned socially regardless, the way you pick which housing you will use as your personal property for that period of time or any period of time does not have to change at all from how it is now: a website.
That's the ideal. For the time being, we should have more social housing and levy massive taxes on landlords, forcing them to either sell and turn that to social housing, taking it off the "market" permanently or pay enormous taxes that: 1) Fund socialized housing, 2) Make purchasing properties as investments unprofitable and 3) Fund building more (alongside nationalizing construction).
I used the words "socialize", "nationalized" and "publicly owned" interchangeably here. The answers differ on who you ask, but the above is what we should be doing, IMO.
So who builds the houses when an area expands? And how do you assign nicer houses in nicer areas to people?
Fancy houses will still cost money as long as money exists, after communism it would likely be lottery or waitlists. The 8 bedroom with a coastal city view is probably turned into a short term vacation spot rather than a personal residence.
Lol you have fun with that. You're going to need a dictator to keep people in line.
I see the temporarily embarrassed millionaires have logged in huh
Tankies gonna tank I guess.
Tankies? I don't see you posting any socdem or anarchist rhetoric, just neoliberal stuff and arguing against socialized housing which is as leftist unity as it gets.
Why because I know human nature? Most of the people here who are for communism, are the ones who think they're going to be running everything.
The "human nature" argument is so old Marx literally debunked it before communism was even really a word.
But I understand feeling depressed about everything. The power of capital seems inescapable and it feels like oppression and fascism is human destiny. Perhaps instead of a cold dialectical analysis, may I suggest "Mutual Aid: A Factor in Evolution" by Peter Kropotkin instead? I think it's a more emotive and soulful piece of writing that may just for a moment restore your faith in the fact that there are at least some people out there who really just want things to be better, not just to be in charge, and that perhaps such a drive exists within all of us to different capacities. I don't want to run anything, I just want housing security.
Having housing is a worthy goal. But communism is not the way to it. Marx didn't debunk shit, because all tries for communism have failed because of human nature. Someone will always want what others have. Hell even the damn bible called this out.
Actually read Marx before you call people tankies then.
Called trade, a feature of communism, not exploitation, a feature of capitalism.
Also lol "source: even the damn bible" and your, like, vibes about like, 'human nature', man (which isn't a real thing btw, there's no unifying human experience actually) isn't very convincing.
I have read Marx, and acting like people who subscribe to his trash aren't tankies is hilarious. You are a tankie if you do. And please show me where this perfect utopia has occurred in history. There is and always will be exploited people. The real world doesn't exist in your wannabe utopia, because if it could, it would have happened already. You can do exactly what you're talking about, but it requires force to get done. They did it in the USSR and people were miserable and still cleaning up that shit even 30 years later. Only people who have never lived through it, think communism is cool.
Oh okay so you're an anti-communist neolib shill lol. I guess actual tankies (auth-left as opposed to anarchists) were right and neolibs do use it as derogatory against all communists.
Yeah this is reasonable and normal to think about landing on the moon in the 1800s. Great rhetoric bud.
I'm from Russia btw, born in USSR. Fash/neolib post-western-shock-therapy Russia of today and Putin is cringe. USSR was mostly cringe. USA also cringe. Has nothing to do with leftism, anarchism or the works of Marx or Kropotkin or Emma Goldman or Rosa Luxembourg etc etc. Still being communist and criticizing the USSR is just being normal and having critical thinking, rather than treating ideology as football teams lol.
I don't subscribe to any political leaning. I continually find myself to be more of a mutt of political ideologies than one thing. All communism ends with authoritarianism. Otherwise it would have worked by now.
Lol what the fuck does the moon landing have to do with a economic form of gov? Capitalism was around way before we landed on the moon...and so was communism.
Cool, i have tons of family from ex ussr block states. The ussr left them in shambles because of failed Communism that was forced upon them. They are still to this day dealing with it.
Mostly? Lol
Sure we have our faults.
Sounds more like you're treating them as a football team... communism to you is your team, you've made that clear.
Are you silly, or just a child? Like people pre-wright brothers would say that about heavier than air flight. People used to say that about moon landing too, hence why I brought it up. I don't want to embarrass you by chewing that analogy further.
Yes and?
This doesn't prevent me from thinking critically and saying things like "Stalin bad on gay rights" and "holodomor is genocide" while also saying "Lenin good on gay rights" or that the USSR had great housing and public transport, especially when you consider it was just barely industrialised and fought through a brutal land war and would go on to beat the US to space.
Nah man, you're just ignorant of what you're talking about and that's why you think you're a mix of ideologies, even though ideologies exist for a reason as more or less logically complete systems of thought, you're not some enlightened centrist.
I can't fix this for you and you don't seem to want to fix it. Have a nice day.
Ah you're one of those tankies who thinks that because it's not the 1800s Communism will magically work....sure thing champ...so the people who are the GOP, where do they fit into all of this? Do you plan on launching them into space?
This doesn't prevent me from thinking critically and saying things like "Stalin bad on gay rights" and "holodomor is genocide" while also saying "Lenin good on gay rights" or that the USSR had great housing and public transport, especially when you consider it was just barely industrialised and fought through a brutal land war and would go on to beat the US to space.
Hahahahahaha holy fuck you're insane. The USSR had great housing....fucking ROFL, some of my family who lived through that shit show are still dealing with it today. You're so delusional it's hilarious.
Lol sure thing champ. You're the type who wants this shit because you'd be the one thinking you're going to be running the show...got bad news for you, you're the one living in the slums while farming for the rich dickheads running the show.
Awesome glad we got that over with.
OoooOOOoooo democratic management of property is sooo tyrannical. The people who would have otherwise inherited a car dealership are going to have to enact a vengeful counterrevolution against the masses.
Sorry for pretending you were engaging in good faith at first.
I am, you're the one who is being delusional and thinking people inherently will work together to provide for each other without any sort of reward system. You seem to be under the impression that we would need a whole new system of gov. To accomplish this. When it can be done today already but isn't happening because no one wants to do free labor for each other. You seem to think everyone who has something nowadays hasn't worked for it and has inherited it...
The government awards construction contracts to those who can do it well in a tender, same way as social housing is built today in cities like Vienna?
Ok, and how do you pick who gets to live in these houses and who pays for it?
From each according to their ability to each according to their need. I.e. if you move to study at a university in a particular city, obviously you have more reason to live in the vicinity than someone who does not, same goes for work etc. It's really very simple.
Before you or some other poster ITT proceeds to go on about how this is limiting freedom and lack of personal choice, I will pre-emptively shut it down by pointing out that under capitalism most people have absolutely zero choice as to where to live, they can either afford it or they cannot, hence being "priced out" of even renting in cities if not entire areas of the country, and even if you argue that those people always have the freedom to switch to higher paid jobs, that leads to obvious societal problems where no one wants to work minimum wage jobs which are still valuable and need to be done, i.e. cleaners, teachers etc.
And lastly, I think that with all that idealistic theory in mind, the actual reality of the matter here in the UK for example is that there are more empty houses than people, and we could end homelessness tomorrow by simply letting people live there instead of having those be "lol line goes up" for Russian oligarchs to fund war.
I think that's a better use of assets, don't you? Hasn't capitalism failed us here?
Well, obviously you assign nicer properties to those who did you favours in the past
Also, you can make all the houses equally undesired so that a true equality is achieved
I'll live in a soviet bloc flat and travel by cool green electric tram anytime over being a rentoid in some mcmansion in bumfuck nowhere and rent out a ford f-150 to go to my job at Walmart, lmao.
Ok, don't know about the rest, but with the electric public transport I totally agree
Lol
Believe it or not, yes, this is what people used to do before the early 1900s
We call it a "dormitory" instead of a "hotel", but yes.
Alternatively, they can buy a house, or a share of a house, and sell that house/share when they leave.