this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2024
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Even willingly targeting civilians?
Settlers are occupiers and therefore, not civilians.
Including people who didn't really decide on where to live, like their children?
Well that's an interesting moral line in the sand to draw in this case.
https://visualizingpalestine.org/visual/six-wars-old/
I think wanting to avoid innocent civilian deaths is a moral line that is valid for both sides.
While I agree with that, it doesn't feel like your question to the other commenter carries quite the weight in this specific context as it might in others given that neither side has been clean about this, and it's not the Palestinian side that has intentionally blown up a playground within the past week.
I do generally think it's hard to equate the two fairly in this context, given the power differential between the two forces and their relative capabilities to be discerning if they so chose.
I apologize if I misunderstood you, but there is no both sides here. The united nations recognizes the right to armed struggle against occupation.
https://www.cjpme.org/fs_236/
It even mentions the Palestinian struggle explicitly.
Adults who were born in Israel, yes, children, no, but your handwringing is funny, since dead Israeli toddlers are purely hypothetical, and you clearly give no fucks about dead Palestinian babies.
Stick your hand in a blender and turn it on.
I do. Mentioning civilian victims on Israeli an side doesn't mean I don't care about civilian victims on Palestinian side, this point was simply already covered largely.
Also please refrain from personal attacks and other violence threats.
You: actively defending genocide
Also you: PLZ NO PERSONAL ATTACKS CIVILITY IS IMPORTANT
No, I am not defending the war crimes of Israeli army nor the ones of Hamas. Just read what I wrote, there's no more to imagine.
You're pointing out the crimes of the victims rather than the oppressors. That's defense of the oppressors no matter how many mental backflips you do to pretend it's not
And aren't you pretending that some of the victims haven't committed acts of terrorism?
I've never seen such mental gymnastics used to defend a group of terrorists. And if you think I'm comparing Hamas to the Palestinian people then you are just as much to blame as the guy you are arguing with.
What my comrades said, and also, stick your other hand in the blender too
That's a pretty serious claim. Do you have any evidence to support it?
I find different sources saying about 30 children were murdered, but given that some bodies were mutilated or burnt the counts are not obvious. https://www.factcheck.org/2023/11/dozens-of-children-died-in-hamas-oct-7-attack-on-israel-contrary-to-online-claim/
Killed by who?
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
I'm aware that some of the hostages that were taken were children. All accounts suggest that they were treated well, for hostages anyway. Its important to recognize that the Zionist regime keeps thousands upon thousands of Palestinian hostages, many of which are children. The Zionists could have negotiated an exchange, ensuring the safe return of all Israeli hostages. Instead, they decided to bomb the living shit out of Gaza, pretty much ensuring their demise.
Yasmin Porat also discusses how they were used as human shields by Hamas. And other survivors have talked about the rape and murder by both Hamas and civilians.
If you trust Yasmin Porat's words, then by that same logic, the other women telling us that Hamas is raping and murdering hostages are telling the truth and the UN is complicit in pretending otherwise.
One cannot prove a negative. If you have evidence for your claims, then by all means feel free to provide it. Fwiw, the intercept has already done a fairly thorough debunking of the sexual violence claims made popular by the New York Times. The reporter had no credentials and the evidence provided turned out to be false.
https://archive.ph/dwzue
If you think Hamas is the only group that doesn't commit rape and sexual assault during war then you are either delusional or purposely ignoring reality. I'm not sure which is more sad.
But here is a press release from the UN from just last month: https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm
A few dozen top news stories, none of them NYT, about Hamas most likely committing sexual assaults and rape... vs your one Intercept article.
Also, keep in mind, rape survivors may not discuss sexual assault for years due to trauma.
Typical lib brain. Always projecting the way that you feel you would behave in a situation on others. Gtfo with your disgusting war rape fantasies. There's a huge difference between an occupying imperialist army and a liberation one. Everything that the Zionists report is a lie. The death numbers reported by the health workers can't be trusted, yet we know that they're accurate if not underreported. The IDF is the most moral army and would never commit any war crimes, yet we know that they're committing war crimes daily, this has been established by the ICJ.
This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. We live in a digitally connected world now and the war crimes can be seen everywhere. If this doesn't radicalize you against the Zionist regime, then you're a fascist.
You really are the perfect target audience for tiktok. Perfect example of feelings over facts. Everything is zionist this or fascist that. I'm honestly surprised you haven't accused me of hasbara yet.
Says the one who hasn't been able to come up with a single fact. I've shared a lot of evidence in this thread. Feel free to read through it, although I known you won't. You'll continue to support the fascist occupiers. Just like liberals did with Iraq and Afghanistan. Then 10 years later, you'll admit it was wrong, but you'll already have moved on to supporting the next imperialist occupation. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
You shared a single article the Intercept did. A single article. You haven't given anything other that ramblings and a single article. You keep spouting feelings and expect the conversation to shift. Just because you feel like this conversation is shifting doesn't mean it actually is.
Even the UN did a report and found the accusations were most likely credible.
You're both uneducated and delusional. Youbalso habe an inferiority conplex, that much is obvious in your ramblung. It's also obvious that you are brainwashed. Even the most hardcore Hamas supporters can admit that rape is prevalent in warzone, and this is no different. Even Palestinian supporters admit that rape happens in warzones.
You are literally trying to say that Hamas is the only group on the planet that wouldnt dare rape a women because... they are Muslims? These men are the only men who would dare rape a hostage, right?
Pedophilia, rape, amd muder run rampant in that part of the world and you still want to pretend that Hamas are innocent freedom fighters and the Jews are evil because there is no way a Palestinian would rape someone.
Next thing you'll tell me is that they enjoy religious and sexual freedom and that homosexuals aren't tossed from rooftops in the name of allah.
This is fake and discredited
It's tragic, but that's what happens when your state primarily defends itself with human shields.
Which state are you talking about?
Palestine is a country, not a state.
In my main language those are often confused, so let me rephrase, which country?
Israel is a state, not a country.
No, I'm pretty sure Israel is a country.
Why would there be Israeli children inside places like the West Bank or Gaza?
Because they were reborn there or moved by their parents.
Why would an Israeli family be living in the West Bank or Gaza? And who would be more likely to be killing their children, Israeli occupation forces or Palestinian resistance to the occupation forces?
I'm going with whichever is siding with Hamas since they teach their children that martyrdom is the greatest thing they could achieve.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=illF1vt5g1Q
Between the starvation, contaminated water, lack of medical care, and indiscriminate IDF bombings, a large portion of Palestinians are going to become martyrs whether they want to or not. I don't blame Hamas for helping the children feel better about the reality of their situation.
Yes. As any civvy would be in their territory at this point
If a civilian comes at you with a weapon, trying to kill you, are they still a civilian?
If a civilian stands in front of relief trucks, sending food/medicine/clothes/tents while the military destroys food/medicine/homes, are they still a civilian?
If a civilian cheers every time one of their country's soldiers shoots a random person or when a bomb in dropped on a hospital, or when missiles are fired at the places went to get away from the fighting, are they still a civilian?
'Cause, from where I'm sitting, being okay with slaughtering people kinds makes it seem like they aren't 'innocent' in this.
and every kapostani is armed, or can be assumed to be. there are no civilians among them, and even their children sing about murder and pillaging. like it of not, I guess every living thing there has to die 🤷♀️
And this is what Palestinian children sing about: Martyrdom!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=illF1vt5g1Q
Seems like everyone should be raising their children better.
I don't think this applies to the general understanding of innocent civilians indeed.
So now it switches from civilians to "innocent" civilians.
Israelis are willingly targeting civilians. Where is your hand wringing about that?
I would also mention them if everyone here was not already doing that.
I don't think Hamas has sniper drones shooting children coming and going from hospitals in Israel
If a German occupied my home during 1940, I'm telling you he wouldn't be a civilian to me. He'd be a complacent thief. A low life settler.
There are no civilians in Israel; every settler is a combatant by virtue (ha) of their theft.
And before you start pearl-clutching and morally peacocking like I know you would if not for this addendum; no, I do not factor Israeli children into my calculus. It sucks for them that their parents decided to either become, or carry on the family tradition of being settler scum; but does Israel ever consider Palestinian children? No. They don't. Israel calls Palestinian children Hamas when it suits them; ergo, I don't consider Israeli children. At all.
You mean IDF veterans and reservists?
It's sad that some children died, but collateral damage is inevitable in war and there's no proof that Hamas deliberately killed children (unlike Israel, which has murdered over 12,300 children - higher than the last 4 years of wars combined!)