this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
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It's actually kind of a fucked up term but a lot of people don't consider it, it's both super racist and classist. I don't really think less of anyone for saying it because it's such a common term but I personally don't like using it. The original implication is that poor white folks are "trash", comparing them to enslaved African Americans.
I always read it as referring to people who are (a) white and (b) trash, without either adjective implying all A are B or vice versa. Like: I've got a red cup on my desk, but that doesn't mean everything red is a cup or that all cups are red.
The Wikipedia article even describes it very much like how I did. Like I said, I understand how people view it but the word at the least has very nasty roots
That was a fascinating wiki read. I'm not equating the two terms, but it definitely has its likeness with the n word in terms of etymology and white (specifically Anglo) supremacy.
You make a good point, but I don't think that holds in the case of combining insults with people groups. Consider "jedi scum" or "filthy thieves" for example.
I also find it to be a derogatory, distasteful, and bigoted term. I definetly think less of people I hear who use it, & hope eventually it will be dropped from the cultural conciousness like other bigoted terms.
It's a way to police what "whiteness" should be, and is a term I've only ever heard from well off and judgemental people.
I've heard a lot of poor folk use it too, it's basically just a derogatory term for a redneck in the Midwest where I live. I don't think a lot of people really understand it's implications.
That's fair. It's definetly one of those offensive terms people use without necessarily thinking about, like "getting gyped" or "pot calling the kettle black".
Knowing is half the battle & raising awareness is half of activism lol
"Pot calling the kettle black" isn't racist though, you gotta know the right things and raise the right awareness.
This term is trickier since it is entangled with Europe's long standing use of blackness to denote wrongness. & that whole dichotomy of good=white bad=black is an often talked about source of controversy in literature.
As the wiki says "It means a situation in which somebody accuses someone else of a fault which the accuser shares". In the case of the quote the fault is being black. Both pot and kettle are black.
Here is an article I found that did a good job delving into the topic. They end up agreeing the term is okay to use but also offer some alternative phrases that side step the potentially offensive phrasing. My fav was, "the wifi calling the narrator unreliable".
Well, white people aren't white and black people aren't black, so there's that.
100%, they're just incorrect human made labels.
Still in the modern english speaking world, those words carry racial undertones. Especially in the US.
I agree with the article that the phrase has nothing to do with race. Also, blackness in the idiom doesn’t connote shame or badness and it's ok to use it.
Definetly your choice to make.
I don't mostly because I have a 'replays in the middle of the night' memory of using it in conversation with a black woman & she let me know exactly how it made her feel. Idk sometimes offense isn't about history it's just about how the random person next to you feels & the phrase isn't so important to me that I can't express the same thing in different words.
I'm struggling to think of a situation where I'd say that to a black woman but I can see how in hindsight it wouldn't be the best turn of phrase. Obviously we should be aware of what we're saying to an audience, but at face value it's not a racist phrase and the lady was wrong to shame you for it.
It was during a class discussion, definetly thoughtless on my part. She didnt shame me, just explained how she felt about it. It was an english course so exploring the connotations of language was pretty typical.
I think of it as a moment that really thought me about the complexities of every day language & the impact of cultural tropes (like the light good, dark bad concept).
Idk lol I'm not trying to change your mind, I think you can use the phrase & will probably never get any push back for it. I guess this is mostly an explination why I used that example in the way above comment. For me, it's a charged phrase that can be percieved as derogatory.