this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
493 points (84.0% liked)

Privacy

833 readers
1 users here now

Privacy is the ability for an individual or group to seclude themselves or information about themselves, and thereby express themselves selectively.

Rules

  1. Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you.
  2. No Porn, Gore, or NSFW content. Instant Ban.
  3. No Spamming, Trolling or Unsolicited Ads. Instant Ban.
  4. Stay on topic in a community. Please reach out to an admin to create a new community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
c0mmando@links.hackliberty.org
493
What a CASHLESS society REALLY means (links.hackliberty.org)
submitted 5 months ago by c0mmando@links.hackliberty.org to c/privacy@links.hackliberty.org
286 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] englislanguage@lemmy.sdf.org 32 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Let me try to respond back:

  1. Depending on your situation, your identity, your society, you cannot always rely on the police helping you. There are lots of documented cases of discrimination (e.g. racism) at police institutions in all kinds of regions across the globe. The companies probably don't want to delete the data any time soon, so there is a chance that this data persists for decades. What if your country chances and starts discriminating or harassing whatever group you belong to? Can you guarantee that your government/society won't flip the switch on any group of society within their lifetime? Can you guarantee that nobody ever wants to visit a country which their group will be discriminated or persecuted?
  2. If the homeless person does not own a smartphone, how do they receive money on their Swish account, yet create a swish account? How does a person without documents create a swish account?
  3. In your case, Swish seems to be a digital gatekeeper. What prevents them from going rogue, increasing prices or discriminating people? I recommended reading Jaron Lanier's Gadget for understanding the power of digital monopolies.

If the first point does not convince you, here are 2 examples:

  • gay dating apps: It repeatedly happened that information from gay dating apps were leaked, sold or extorted to bad governments. Those governments discriminated or persecuted, in some cases killed people just for being homosexual. Chances are high that a gay person has some digital traces to that, e.g. in Swish. Cashless puts them even more at risk in countries like Egypt. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2017/apr/03/jailed-for-using-grindr-homosexuality-in-egypt
  • In the 1930s, a lot of Jews in Europe were identified through state documents which (unnecessarily) mentioned their religion. In some locations, brave people protected them by destroying, hiding or faking state documents.

In other words: If your society changes, any data that exists may be turned against you, even costing your life and the lives of your closest people. Avoiding to have this data saves lives and protects minorities.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 5 months ago

If your society changes

This is why I know that I'll end up on a list if things go as poorly as I expect in the USA during my lifetime.

[–] NIB@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Swish is partly owned by the Central Bank of Sweden(which is 100% state owned) so it is basically state owned. But as with the digital euro, the private banks play a big part and atm are needed in order to facilitate the digital transactions. This could change in the future.

Your points are societal points and not currency related points. You are right, there are significant issues with swish, you basically need to be a swedish citizen(have a "personal number"). A lot of things in Sweden are gatekeeped by needing a "personal number". This is an obstacle even for other EU(Schengen) europeans.

Societies are built with the majority in mind. There are holes that need to be fixed. But the existence of holes does not mean that they cant be fixed.

As far as privacy is concerned, you are right, this is a big attack on privacy. But it doesnt have to be, it is just that the governments want it to be. Not because of some megalomaniacal genocidal plan but for tax and criminal issues. Could it be used for more nefarious plans in the future? Sure. You can always use a cryptocurrency like monero though.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What all can you purchase with monero? I don't see a lot of shops around me accepting any crypto whatsoever.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago

What all can you purchase with monero?

Drugs and guns.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago

You can always use a cryptocurrency like monero though.

Just don't assume it provides anonymity both now and in the future. Even if you follow recommended security practices, Monero can leak details that can help track you. And if you were using Monero when it started, it was far less secure then, and all those transactions can be analyzed now.

[–] englislanguage@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 5 months ago

If our societies would be perfect (now and any time in the future), we would not need this discussion, maybe not even privacy at all. Though a lot of things are very good in our societies, I guess we will not live to see them becoming perfect, so I rather retain some caution, and privacy.